Gazetteer Metaplot

[Matthew L. Martin]

But Azalin would probably have found himself irked by this move of S's, since he wouldn't be able to get her back to fulfill his real plans for her.

As clarification, I'd meant it as being Azalin's plan, not S's plan for suicide. Azalin could always clone a new S, place her soul into the clone, and have her back at his side. The God-Brain would just get the dead brain out of the most recent S body, thus getting access to S's knowledge but not her soul or anything.

Hmm...I may have let slip more than I intended there.

BUT, my question: What generated the "the Thirteenth and the Greatest" comment? I've seen nothing to suggest that the Children have been increasing in power/prestige across the Gazetteers, although admittedly the one from Gaz I (Beast of the Hills) wasn't even important enough to get her sidebar... And thinking about it, I guess that it's kinda true, as power-wise Vigo Drakov < Jongleur < Malocchio and it's still unknown who the one from Gaz V is...

The Beast's sidebar was cut for space, unfortunately--this led to them tagging the Dukkars in later Gazs as 'do not cut'.

I wish you could reveal what you know, especially as you're not bound by contracts...

Sorry, but I've got too much respect for the Kargatane to reveal what I know without their go-ahead. You want me to talk, get John to let me off my leash.

[Isabella]

Sorry, but I've got too much respect for the Kargatane to reveal what I know without their go-ahead. You want me to talk, get John to let me off my leash.

Hmm, sounds like an adventure hook.

[Lucius]

Sorry, but I've got too much respect for the Kargatane to reveal what I know without their go-ahead. You want me to talk, get John to let me off my leash.

So...John, Ryan, and all the other Kargatane members...ppleeeassee!!! Can he tell us what he knows?

Oh, and if you guys could tell us what do you know, we would love to hear it

Thanks!

[cure]

But we do know that Malocchio has been to Falkovnia in the past (as he drags Gabrielle there).

He did?!? I missed that. Where does it appear? I knew that he had the potential taking a domain lord out of his/her domain, but I didn't realise he had done it.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Sounds like someone's been reading my campaign journal.

Malocchio dragged Gabby to Falkovnia in my campaign when I ran The Evil Eye. As far as I know I made up the event completely, and it's entirely non-canon. (I wanted to show my players just how powerful and dangerous he was)

EDIT: And you're right, I can't find any confirmation of Chezna. I must've confused speculation with confirmation. oops.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

But Azalin would probably have found himself irked by this move of S's, since he wouldn't be able to get her back to fulfill his real plans for her.

Hmm...I may have let slip more than I intended there.

How annoying is it when you blatantly drop a hint like that, only to find out that people like myself had missed it completely?

Take heart, though: as Mangrum pointed out, most of us (myself included) are unable to actually listen to the hints you guys give out, instead hearing what we want to hear. Meaning, you've definitely not given any hint to me, anyway...

For example: what I think you said (trying my best not to hear what I want to hear, but just what was said), "S doesn't make it back home after Gaz XIII, and it's due to purposeful actions of S's." Only you and the Kargatane (and maybe a few others) know whether I heard your hint right or not. Most likely I got it wrong, further strengthening Mangrum's argument. And even if I got it right, considering how often we all read these hints incorrectly, everyone will simply assume that it was wrong anyway and so it doesn't matter. The secrets are still safe regardless of how many you choose to reveal.

So I wouldn't worry about it, if you did accidentally reveal more than you'd intended.

And in case you're curious, here's what I heard, based on my own story idea from above and Ryan Naylor mentioning S's proposed suicide attempt: "S merges herself into the God-Brain as a way of finally escaping Azalin's grasp and controlling her own life."

Mind you, I'm not predicting that this is the real idea proposed by the Kargatane. Usually Mangrum comes up with these really poetic and complicated ideas (that I love reading but could never create), and so I predict that S's way of escaping Azalin's overarching control would have to somehow symbolize how Azalin would escape the Dark Powers' overarching control OR how Azalin could successfully escape if only he were willing to seek redemption. Example is the whole S committing suicide to be free of Azalin as matched to Azalin more-or-less committing suicide in the Requiem to be free of the Dark Powers, with neither being free in the end. Or, as something that's already written, there's the similarity of S not letting her daughter die, just as Azalin keeps trying to bring Irik back and won't let him rest.

I just put out the ideas that I think of, nothing more, nothing less. It's not Kargatane-quality so it's not a guess at the Kargatane's plot. Or, at least, I shouldn't be guessing at the Kargatane's plot, though I might have done so earlier.

Anyway, point being, there are enough people like me who will purposefully take the hints incorrectly anyway (merging them into our own ideas to make something different than the Kargatane's) that any secrets you accidentally drop will be hidden again pretty quickly. The Kargatane and others in-the-know will realize you dropped a real secret, but the rest of us won't, so who cares?

The Beast's sidebar was cut for space, unfortunately--this led to them tagging the Dukkars in later Gazs as 'do not cut'.

I realize, as it was in this same thread that it was explained (page 2). It was just a poor joke on my part, that the Beast of the Hills was so unimportant that even the Editors cut her out. My apologies that the joke was too poor to be recognized as such.

Sorry, but I've got too much respect for the Kargatane to reveal what I know without their go-ahead. You want me to talk, get John to let me off my leash.

If I'd taken the time to think about it, I would have realized that the Kargatane was the source of your knowledge of the Kargatane's plots... And as such wouldn't have made such a silly comment. Sorry about that, as I agree that since they took you into their confidence, it'd be pretty dishonorable to reveal their secrets without their permission. I just wasn't thinking.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

That said, under 3E, all of these things are taken for granted. If the original lives, clone produces an empty husk that withers and dies if not preserved. Upon the death of the original body, the soul would immediately be drawn to and would start inhabiting the clone body, if there was one already prepared and preserved. No evil duplicate would be produced.

I'm assuming the RL modification just brings the 2E horror into the 3E version. But again, as my books are at home and I keep forgetting to have the PDF on my flash drive, this is not necessarily correct thinking.

No, you've got it right: in Ravenloft, 3E clones made from the living are both mobile and evil. This implies that Azalin kept S's duplicate(s) in some form of stasis, or at least imprisoned, as a future recepticle for her spirit. Any memories the clone might have had of being locked up would be supplanted by those of S herself, however, leaving her with no conscious recollection of the replacement-body's independent experiences (if any).

A more awkward discrepancy would be that a clone, like other forms of resurrection in 3E, would have one less experience level than did the original. In S's case, that suggests that her class level as a wizard was an even number before she died in Verbrek, and an odd number after she was revived: else, she'd have noticed that she'd lost access her most powerful spells.

Were full or partial game-stats for S ever decided upon, BTW?

After all, I don't really know enough about Illithid God-Brains to know what they can do that others can't do (Azalin, after all, also has SuperGenius intelligence and the ability to read minds; what can the God-Brain do that Azalin cannot do himself?

If psionics and magic are considered separate forces (or if Azalin thinks they are), perhaps the lich suspects that the God-Brain can teach him psionics as an alternative to advancing his magical skills. We know he can acquire new knowledge so long as it's not spell-related, so the Big A might have turned to psionics as a fallback; certainly, he's always had an affinity for spells that influence the mind.

[Lord Cyclohexane]

But we do know that Malocchio has been to Falkovnia in the past (as he drags Gabrielle there).

He did?!? I missed that. Where does it appear? I knew that he had the potential taking a domain lord out of his/her domain, but I didn't realise he had done it.

Whoops... Check Gonzoron's post:

Sounds like someone's been reading my campaign journal.

Malocchio dragged Gabby to Falkovnia in my campaign when I ran The Evil Eye. As far as I know I made up the event completely, and it's entirely non-canon. (I wanted to show my players just how powerful and dangerous he was)

I'm sorry, I got that mixed together... So cure, I screwed up, Malocchio didn't actually do that.

And so nevermind, there'd be some other way of the three Children having met up, if indeed there's any interaction between them at all.

EDIT: And you're right, I can't find any confirmation of Chezna. I must've confused speculation with confirmation. oops.

Darn, I was hoping it *had* been confirmed and that I'd just not found that confirmation yet.

But... I don't think it's Chezna. Her entry (p15 of Gaz V) carefully never describes her as Vistani, just that she is "believed to be a Vistani outcast," that she wears "Vistani clothing" and that "red hair is unknown among the dark-locked Vistani." Personally, I don't believe that Chezna is a Vistani, nor the half-Vistani that she'd have to be one of the GC's Children. Not to mention, she fails to have the slight physical deformity that Mangrum noted as being a commonality, and she also fails to have the heart of malice that'd be inherited from the Gentleman Caller. I mean, yeah, she's a bit vicious, but only since Prince Othmar betrayed her. But anyway, I don't believe that Chezna has any Vistani blood and so don't believe that she's a Child, but I'd have to go check "The Awakening" to confirm that she's a non-Vistani. (IIRC Chezna appears in "The Awakening" anyway)

[Lord Cyclohexane]

It's likely the hour, but this just occurred to me. From the 2nd page of this thread, in the original hints:

* In my personal notes, I considered Gazetteer XIII a good place to end Ravenloft Third Edition. Particularly since D&D 4th Edition would likely be approaching (or here) by then, were RL still going at that point, I would have bumped the timeline forward to 765 BC and handed the reins off to the next generation of designers to launch Ravenloft Fourth Edition, which likely would have focused on the imminent "end days" of the setting.

So... how much of the Metaplot, which centers around Azalin (whose problems center around his son) and around S (who has problems centered around her daughter) and around the Children of the Gentleman Caller ...

How much of the Metaplot would symbolize the out-of-game story of the Kargatane "hand[ing] the reins off to the next generation"?

Likely I'm reading too much into this, due to the hour, though...

[Lord Cyclohexane]

EDIT: And you're right, I can't find any confirmation of Chezna. I must've confused speculation with confirmation. oops.

(snip)

But anyway, I don't believe that Chezna has any Vistani blood and so don't believe that she's a Child, but I'd have to go check "The Awakening" to confirm that she's a non-Vistani. (IIRC Chezna appears in "The Awakening" anyway)

Okay, I checked "The Awakening" and found that I'm wrong: Chezna is/was a Vistani and is now a Darkling. It doesn't mention if she's full or half-Vistani, nor does it say what crime she committed that got her kicked out.

But out of curiousity, I also checked out Gaz V to see if I could find a better candidate for the Child of the Gentleman Caller... And I think I did.

On p56 of Gaz V (in the Tepest section), S tells of how the Inquisition started up again after Ferrier's inn was attacked, with Ferrier's wife and numerous patrons being killed and Ferrier's daughter being kidnapped. "Records indicate that the hunters came upon the creature as it was changing forms from Ferrier's barmaid to a hideous, gray-skinned monster and was about to sacrifice the baby under the full moon."

The slaughter at the inn matches the utterly fiendish mind, as inherited from the Gentleman Caller. The gray skin matches the minor physical deformity inherited as well (maybe doesn't seem minor, but seems in line with the Jongleur's full-body burns and as Vigo uses a cloak of illusions to hide his deformities, I assume his are pretty major too). And unfortunately it dies too quickly to find out if it had a Vistani mother.

Thinking this might have been one of the Hags, though, I checked their description. Leticia has yellow skin, Laveeda has blue-black skin, and Lorinda has green skin. As such, the "hideous, grey-skinned monster" was not one of the Hags.

It could be one of the fey, but S rules that out and so I will too. Other potential would be a doppelganger, as S suggests, but I've not heard anything about doppelgangers eating people whereas this creature ate part of Ferrier's wife.

Anyway, due to it relatively matching Mangrum's description of the Children on page 2 (kinda scattered, so I didn't know what to quote) and it not matching any other monster that I can think of, I think the unnamed monster from p56 is the Child for Gaz V. The only huge drawback to this theory is: that would mean that Gaz V has a dead Child in it. Although, come to think of it, I only heard mention that every Gazetteer would have a Child of the GC in it, not that it would have a *living* Child in it...

[Lord Cyclohexane]

Were full or partial game-stats for S ever decided upon, BTW?

I can't find it now, but in an old thread reviewing Gaz V, Mangrum gave S's stats. IIRC I believe it was Expert 3 / Wizard 2.

He also gave a link to his own website, where he had his sketches of what he pictured her as, but I don't recall that description either, just that he said she looked like a cross between someone I can't recall and Claudia Black (Farscape, Stargate SG 1)

I've still got the sketches, which I downloaded, and which say in the bottom left corner "EXP / WIZ" and have other notes as well (like "highlight low CHA" and "43 years old in 756 BC" and lots of other similar notes that I think are okay to have just mentioned...)

I tried searching for the original thread (via Search by trying to find "claudia black") and also long-way by searching through Mangrum's old posts (via Profile), but both failed. I think that thread may have been deleted.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Just Wizard 2? That seems so unlikely. For one thing, she mentions using Speak with dead and at least the capacity to study a spell of flight. Either it's an early sketch of her, or S seriously levelled up while writing the Gazetteers.

[cure]

The attack is Tepest is generally and perhaps wrongly attributed arround here, and perhaps in the Guides to Dopplegangers itself, to a doppleganger.

Now the presence in Tepest of the Gentlemen caller and his disamusement with S perhaps invites a revisitation of this conclusion.

[cure]

S has had enough adventures to add a few levels. In Kartakass, somewhere between her second and fourth domain, she casts what seemed to be Hold Person before proceeding to carve up a Wolfwere alive. But then again, Hold Person wouldn't work on a Wolfwere would it? And Hold Monster would be a much higher level spell . . . hmmm . . . .

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Plus there's all that scrying she did on the Necropolis for her independent research.