Azalin undead dominion vs Death's child

[Faust]

If a death's child go in darkon and start making troble can azalin control him trough undead dominion?

And if a mage cast control undead on an undead controlled by azalin who contorl the undead?

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I'm unfamiliar with this term Death's Child - from where does it come? Do you mean the Horsemen sent out by Death?

In the case of the Wizard casting control undead, Azalin would retain control. Remember, one of the rules of a Domain is that the powers of a Lord supercede any mortal magic.

[Igor the Henchman]

Edit: Sorry, didn't catch at first it was a feat.

GazII, p. 136:
Undead Dominion: Azalin can animate any humanoid corpse in Darkon as a zombie or skeleton, as the spell animate dead; however, there is no limit to the number of undead Azalin can animate or control at any time. Azalin can also automatically command all undead creatures in Darkon. Azalin can see, hear and even speak through any non-intelligent undead he commands

p. 60, under "Death's Child(Su)"
The initiate is also subject to Death's command undead and to the touch of the reaper abilities (see Attached Notes), regardless of the distance between them.

And, on p. 138:

Command Undead (Su): Death can command any undead creature within 60 feet as a cleric. These undead creatures automatically submit to Death's will. Death can command an unlimited number of undead in this manner, sending mental orders as a free action. As soon as a minion completes its assigned task or moves more than 60 feet from Death, however, it regains its self-control.

So its basically a Darklord vs Darklord tie. Short answer: DM's choice.

Long answer: Depends on what image you prefer to have of Death in your games. If you want it to be Azalin's great rival, one of the few really irksome thorns in the lich's side, then Death's Children would be immune to Azalin's Command Undead ability for as long as they act on a specific task given out by Death.

If, however, you want to maintain Azalin's "nigh-invincible" image, say that Azalin's darklord powers know no exceptions. A Death's child's best bid in that situation would be to remain unnoticed as much as possible within Darkon, then.

And, if you want both villains to be on equal ground, have them roll an opposed charisma check (both have a charisma score of 16).

[Stygian Inquirer]

I'm unfamiliar with this term Death's Child - from where does it come? Do you mean the Horsemen sent out by Death?

It is a special quality that Death can grant any undead. The Horsemen might have had this quality. This special quality is found in the Necropolis section of Gazetteer II on page 60.

Nothing under "Death" and "The Slain" says that Death's minions are in any way immune to this (though Negative Energy elementals like Death itself would be).

On page 60, it states that any creatures with this are subject to Death's command undead ability regardless of distance. Therefore, I think this supercedes Azalin's control.

There's the official answer, and quite likely the reason why Death's minions haven't overrun Darkon by now.

The reason why Death's minions haven't overrun Darkon is because when Death gives the Death's Child ability to a servant, Death loses a number of HD equal to that of the undead so bestowed. Therefore, he cannot do it all the time, only on his most powerful servants. Then again, he could just use his Touch of the Reaper ability to make himself more powerful again.

[Igor the Henchman]

Also note that Death can kill any of its Death's Children vie its drain ability regardless of distance, regardless of who controls it.

[Stygian Inquirer]

Also, it says on page 60: During the induction ceremony, Death tattoos an hourglass over the initiates heart, infusing it with negative energy that allows Death to control the creature from afar. To a degree, all members of the Unholy Order (and those with the Death's Child quality) are extensions of Death itself. Therefore, I think that Death's control would be absolute because he is infusing his minions with a portion of himself. That is how I would interpret it anyway...

[alhoon]

On page 60, it states that any creatures with this are subject to Death's command undead ability regardless of distance. Therefore, I think this supercedes Azalin's control.

I don't think it supercedes Azalin's control. There is no mention on that. OTOH If Azalin controled a Death-controled undead then Death could again try to control it.
So we end up with the PHB rules of contrary controls of Charisma contested checks as Igor has proposed.
In this case, I would add to the charisma checks the turnining resistance of both these. Since Death doesn't has turn resistance, he has a problem.

However, Death could always kill his minion if he wanted, as Igor proposed.

[Stygian Inquirer]

The reason I think that it supercedes Azalin's control is that Death is infusing them with Negative Energy possibly making the minion more like its master and less controllable as undead.

[Coan]

Think of it this way.

If Death cannot send his minions out without them being taken over by Azalin where is the conflict? Where can a story arise from that?

If Death can have a select few undead pass undetected then we have a plot hook, something we can use.

Rules don't solve problems, creative minds do.

[Darkknight]

Great response Coan... I have used the children as the eternal thorn in Azalin's side. There is one who has infiltrated a sect of the Kargat, though as Azalin regains his firm control of his police force we shall soon have an issue....

Again plot hooks for those that enjoy the Necropolis in the center of Darkon....

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Yeah, Coan's right. If it can't supercede Azalin's control, what's the point? Death can control the undead at any distance... but as soon as he leaves the shroud, Azalin can take over. It's not like Necropolis has any borders other than with Darkon. Pretty lame ability if that were the case. (Even if Azalin isn't all-knowing enough to notice the death's child right away, what's he going to do? run for the border?) It seems like this ability was made specifically FOR this case.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Very true; that's presumably why the Death's Child ability was invented, in the first place.

Also, the statement that Azalin can "automatically control any undead in Darkon" is kind of vague on the mechanism by which he asserts control. Depending on the DM's preferences, this could be interpreted as anything from every undead creature that puts a toe over the border automatically going "Yeessssss, maassssteeeer...", to undead merely getting no saving throw to avoid being controled, if Azalin sees fit to show up in person and dominate them with necromantic spells. FWIW, I'd be more inclined to favor the notion that he can automatically control intelligent undead which he takes the time to meet face-to-face, but not ones he can't be bothered to deal with personally; after all, we still find mention of ghoul packs and so on causing the same kind of trouble as during Azalin's absence, and I doubt he'd allow them to run loose if he could tame them with a moment's thought from Castle Avernus.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

i don't know, S asked Azalin the same question about the halfling wererat bandit, to which Azalin replied " A child forever coddled by its father never grows up." Azalin may just not feel its worth his bother to control the ghoul packs - not when they serve as a convienient way to test his minions or draw heroic-type people out into the open.

[Dominique]

It could also be that it takes an act of will for Azalin to control undead, even if only a momentary one, which would mean that he probably wouldn't exert the effort for something that wasn't potentially useful or a thorn in his side. A vampire from Necropolis out for a midnight snack that could have valuable information about what's going on inside? Snapped up and controlled. A pack of random hungry ghouls that aren't doing much beyond killing the odd 10 villagers a night? Ignored.

[Nathan of the FoS]

I reckon I'd say that undead given the "Death's Child" quality are thereafter considered negative energy elementals, like Death itself, and therefore are not affected by Azalin's ability.