DPs' Preferences: What makes a likely darklord?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I forget which thread it was -- it might not even have been in this forum -- but the topic recently came up of how the Dark Powers seem more likely to make someone a darklord, all else being equal, if the crimes they've committed are emotionally charged. As a shift from abusing the classic dead horses of "What are the DPs/what do they want?" and "How do you design a good [in the metagame sense] Ravenloft villain?", I wondered if anyone would care to voice opinions on what the *Dark Powers* consider a sign that a specific subject would be ideal darklord material.

This isn't meant to be a thread about how to design a darklord suitable for your game -- that's highly subjective, depending on what your players like and on their PCs' personalities, fears, etc -- but rather, what kind of villains seem to be most to the DPs' tastes, as extrapolated from existing darklords' natures and histories. What sort of crimes do the Dark Powers find most worthy (?) of receiving a domain? What character-flaws and/or motives perk their interest, especially easily? Conversely, are there any categories of offense that they don't take an interest in, and are disinclined to "reward" with darklord status (as opposed to putting such evil-doers on a Terror Track to conventional monsterdom)?

[Nathan of the FoS]

H'mmmm....

I'd say

1) Obsession. They're almost all obsessed, which is the reason the whole "darklord's curse" thing is so interesting.

2) Killing family members. This is probably the next-closest to a universal element I can think of (although exceptions spring immediately to mind, of course).

I'm pretty sure you have to kill SOMEONE to become a darklord--can anyone think of any definite, for-sure exceptions? Adam, maybe?

3) Twisted love. Ties in with #1, of course.


I think almost every darklord fits either 1) or 2) (or both, of course); for several of the others we don't know much about their background or why they're darklords (Ebonbane, Gwydion, and the God-Brain are examples).

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Well, let's make a list, shall we?

(This is off the top of my head, so feel free to correct me)

Darklord: crime

Azalin: killed son
Strahd: killed family
Godfrey: killed wife and daughter
D'honaire: killed sister? I forget...
Vlad: Cruelty, slaughter of innocents for entertainment, Genocide
Death: ?? infused with evil ??
Hags: killed family, If I recall correctly
Tristessa: Worshipped Lolth, an evil entity
Malken: Killed wives/lovers of Romir and Tristen Hiregaard
Hazlik: killed rivals
Tristen: killed family?? (It's been a while since I read CF)
Adam: Born with evil soul
Lukas: too human for a wolfwere?
Gabby: killed mother (and Bahkolis)
Ivana: killed mother
Ivan: killed sister
Kharkov: evil creature... umm.... anything else?
Soth: betrayed vows, killed wife, disobeyed gods of good, causing Cataclysm
Gwydion: enslaved race he helped create
Markov: killed wife? general unholy experiments
Jacqueline: I'm drawing a blank.... anything other than being a wererat? killed her father maybe?
Dominiani: preyed on people he claimed to heal
Juste: killed associates/friends


Looks like an awful lot of kinslayers and betrayers... will a few "born evil" types.

[Malus Black]

D'honaire: killed sister? I forget...

Manipulated his maid into commiting suicide, wasn't it?

Death: ?? infused with evil ??

The murders the Horsemen commited on his orders during the Shrouded Years.

Adam: Born with evil soul.

Maimed Mordenheim's wife.

Jacqueline: I'm drawing a blank.... anything other than being a wererat? killed her father maybe?

I guess she was just the second most evil person in Richemulot when she killed Claude.

[Stygian Inquirer]

An interesting topic and list. Lets see if I can help with it at all.

Hags: killed family, If I recall correctly

They actually killed all of the people who stayed at their cottage, cooked them up and fed them to the rest of the family.

Tristen: killed family?? (It's been a while since I read CF)

His pride, paranoia and selfishness led to the death of his entire family. He did not actually killed them but he did bring about the events that lead to their deaths.

Lukas: too human for a wolfwere?

Lukas went on a massive killing spree in Barovia and managed to escape Strahd by running into the Mists.

Gabby: killed mother (and Bahkolis)

Gabriel did kill Bakholis but she did not kill her mother. She just left her to die at the hands of a werewolf.

Ivan: killed sister

Ivan got jealous, killed his sister and her husband in a fit of rage.

Kharkov: evil creature... umm.... anything else?

Kharkov was forced into killing the woman he loved most by an evil wizard. He joined the Kargat, killed wizard, and that was that (I think).

Anton Misroi: Killed his wife and a neighbouring plantation owner because he thought they were having an affair when the plantation owner was merely conforting her.

Diamabel: Went a little overboard on his religious crusade against infidels.

Marikith Queen: Was a human princess who turned into a Marikith Queen to scare her mother to death.

Shinpi: Sowed the seeds of war amongst his children and created a civil war that tore his land apart.

Crocodile: Killed the 'man-apes' by absorbing the powers of the animals of the jungle.

Arijani: Killed his father.

Pieter Van Riese: Killed his crew while trying to find safe passage.

Bluebeard: Killed his wives.

Stezen D'Polarno: Traps people in paintings.

The Lady of the Ravens: Turns everyone who comes to her island into Ravens.

Ebonbane: Destroyed the Shadowborn family line.

Looks like an awful lot of kinslayers and betrayers... will a few "born evil" types.

I do not think that anyone is born evil and I think that that is especially true in Ravenloft. People's perceptions may be skewed by the evil that exists all around them byut they are not born evil.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

An interesting topic and list. Lets see if I can help with it at all.

Lukas: too human for a wolfwere?

Lukas went on a massive killing spree in Barovia and managed to escape Strahd by running into the Mists.

True, but how is that different than any other Wolfwere? Is he just the only one to go into the mists? or was his killing spree larger than most?

Gabby: killed mother (and Bahkolis)

Gabriel did kill Bakholis but she did not kill her mother. She just left her to die at the hands of a werewolf.

Fair enough, but in my opinion, that's close enough. The werewolf was just a weapon. She had the power to save her and chose not to out of selfishness and vindictiveness.

Kharkov: evil creature... umm.... anything else?

Kharkov was forced into killing the woman he loved most by an evil wizard. He joined the Kargat, killed wizard, and that was that (I think).

The first part was not his fault so (Chardath Spulzeer notwithstanding) shouldn't have been part of his crime. Killing the wizard that made him a killer hardly seems worth darklordship either.

Elena Faithold: destroyed several villages on her overzealous crusade

Looks like an awful lot of kinslayers and betrayers... will a few "born evil" types.

I do not think that anyone is born evil and I think that that is especially true in Ravenloft. People's perceptions may be skewed by the evil that exists all around them byut they are not born evil.

I don't think so either, but it's part of the canon in at least one case. As punishment for Mordenheim's hubris, Adam was imbued with an evil soul by the dark powers. I don't like it, but it's the official explanation.

[Malus Black]

Tristen: killed family?? (It's been a while since I read CF)

His pride, paranoia and selfishness led to the death of his entire family. He did not actually killed them but he did bring about the events that lead to their deaths.

Most of them, yes, but he murdered Isolt knowingly. By the way, what happened to Brangain?

[Igor the Henchman]

What I say here may go slightly against the general current, but I think the only unique attribute of all Darklords is in being chosen by the Dark Powers. Being exceptional, though it may help, is not necessary. The way I see it, there's nothing that much separates Strahd from your average vampire necromancer. There is almost nothing that distinguishes Azalin from your average cunning lich. Hazlik is certainly no more wicked than a great number of his colleagues in Thay. Adam was simply born with an evil soul, as was Dominic. Harkon Lukas's only notable feature lies in his potential for torment at being too human, not in any display of above-average evil. Kharkov is merely an interesting curiosity.

I'd say the Dark Powers just have a knack to collect the most pretty-looking pieces around, and locate them in ways where they will best fit their schemes. It is entirely possible they just take whomever it is most convenient for them to take.

There are plenty of specimen in the Dread Realms that clearly deserve a domain, yet the Dark Powers refuse to touch them. Toben, Ludzig, the Brain, The Gentleman Caller, Lyssa, Hilde Borganov, Pacali, Ebb, Jacqueline Montarri, Bollendash, Ratik Ubel, Drigor, Othmar, Azrael, Sithington, Jack Bequick, Inajira and lots of others have "Darklord" written all over them, but the Dark Powers are smart enough to know who is better chained and who is better be let to roam free.

[Scipio]

There are plenty of specimen in the Dread Realms that clearly deserve a domain, yet the Dark Powers refuse to touch them. Toben, Ludzig, the Brain, The Gentleman Caller, Lyssa, Hilde Borganov, Pacali, Ebb, Jacqueline Montarri, Bollendash, Ratik Ubel, Drigor, Othmar, Azrael, *snip*

Ah, but they still torment Azrael as they would many a darklord. It is his torment to never actually get that position of power, something he so desires.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

About Von Kharkov and Lukas: Perhaps their crime isn't that they killed people -- that's instinct for a panther that feels threatened, and business as usual for an inhuman monster -- but that they each tend to *think like humans*, yet continue to behave like man-eating predators. Lukas might deny his reasoning is that of a (power-hungry) human, yet that's just how he's thinking every time he uses his human guise as a means to gain power and influence (as opposed to using it for camoflage when hunting). Von Kharkov might never really have been human, yet he *thought* he was one, and consciously rejected the truth when he learned otherwise. In each case, they take on a human appearance and claim a position in human society (something no normal wolfwere or panther [even an Awakened one] would be hypocritical enough to do), yet refuse to accept that this choice -- the choice to live as humans, whatever their natures -- makes them subject to the same moral responsibilities as a human being.

[Igor the Henchman]

There are plenty of specimen in the Dread Realms that clearly deserve a domain, yet the Dark Powers refuse to touch them. Toben, Ludzig, the Brain, The Gentleman Caller, Lyssa, Hilde Borganov, Pacali, Ebb, Jacqueline Montarri, Bollendash, Ratik Ubel, Drigor, Othmar, Azrael, *snip*

Ah, but they still torment Azrael as they would many a darklord. It is his torment to never actually get that position of power, something he so desires.

Azalin sought that position too. Based on his feedback, I doubt Azrael really wants it.

This comment was unrelated to the actual discussion.

[Igor the Henchman]

About Von Kharkov and Lukas: Perhaps their crime isn't that they killed people -- that's instinct for a panther that feels threatened, and business as usual for an inhuman monster -- but that they each tend to *think like humans*, yet continue to behave like man-eating predators. Lukas might deny his reasoning is that of a (power-hungry) human, yet that's just how he's thinking every time he uses his human guise as a means to gain power and influence (as opposed to using it for camoflage when hunting). Von Kharkov might never really have been human, yet he *thought* he was one, and consciously rejected the truth when he learned otherwise. In each case, they take on a human appearance and claim a position in human society (something no normal wolfwere or panther [even an Awakened one] would be hypocritical enough to do), yet refuse to accept that this choice -- the choice to live as humans, whatever their natures -- makes them subject to the same moral responsibilities as a human being.

Impressive! I never thought of it from this angle. This may be the best explanation of the two character's I have heard so far.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Why, thanks!

That might also explain what the Reniers are doing, to merit darklord status for their family's leader. Most wererats live like rats, or at least like human beggers, theives, etc.; they pass for humans, but they don't try to rule over humans or covet high-ranking humans' comforts and prestige. The Renier leaders became darklords because they don't stop at bossing other wererats around: they want to be nobles in *human* society, too. Hence, they're damned for their hypocrisy, not merely their nature.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

A lot of these problems stems from a tendancy of early domains to be created by just any powerful evil person to enter the mists.

Let's look at some of the lords created that way:

Azalin
Harkon Lucas
Drakov
D'Honaire
Karkov
Markov
Yagno Petrovna

Godfrey only became lord because he was the most powerful evil creature left in Mordent when Strahd and Azalin left
Ivanna, Jaqueline and Gabrielle only recieved their domains by killing pre-existing lords

It would appear that a huge number of the biggest names in Ravenloft only recieved their domain by default. There seems to be more emphasis on Most Powerful evil being than on Most Damned.

[Igor the Henchman]

How about this theory: After early experiments with Strahd, the Dark Powers launched an 'expansion program' for their realm, so they took about any interesting evil individual they stumbled upon. As their experiment progressed, they allowed themselves to become more selective in their choice. Whoever said the Dark Powers' tastes could not evolve with time?