Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Discussing all things Ravenloft
Post Reply
User avatar
Carrion Crow
Agent of the Fraternity
Agent of the Fraternity
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Carrion Crow »

Having recently been re-ensnared by the Mists, I have been going over various old sourcebooks that I own, the available netbooks and those 3E books I can find online copies of.

Which brings me to the topic of Bogeymen.

I liked Ryan's idea that Bogeymen are manifestations of the Demiplane itself, which were in his original article in the Book of Sacrifices and expanded/made officially canon in Dark Tales & Disturbing Legends.

However, looking at the definition of bogeymen, there are two entities that appeared in a 2E sourcebook which seem to fit this category - and not the "category" that they were originally placed in, namely the Headless Horseman and the Phantom Lover from Darklords.

Looking at the descriptions of both of these, whilst each of them appears to have a "Domain," neither of them has any history or details of what makes them a Darklord. Furthermore, each of these entities can appear in anywhere in Ravenloft, has a specific victim profile, has tales told about them in different domains and generally fit the profile of Bogeymen, rather than Darklords.

So, I will using them as such.

As some of the traditional "nursery bogies" here in the UK have already been translated into D&D monsters (Jenny Greenteeth is effectively a Hag), I can see why Ryan chose the particular entities he did (although Croquemitaine literally translates as "mitten cruncher", which is slightly more disturbing image than what is presented). However, a 1E article from Dragon Magazine (#138 The Ungratful Dead by Tom Moldvay) did give alternative variants of the skeleton, one of which was Rawhead and Bloody Bones, which wikipedia has this to say of; "Ruth Tongue said in Somerset Folklore that he "lived in a dark cupboard, usually under the stairs. If you were heroic enough to peep through a crack you would get a glimpse of the dreadful, crouching creature, with blood running down his face, seated waiting on a pile of raw bones that had belonged to children who told lies or said bad words. If you peeped through the keyhole he got you anyway."

Quite an effective image and a worthy addition to the Bogeymen of Ravenloft. :twisted:
User avatar
Mephisto of the FoS
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1645
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:55 pm
Location: Athens-Greece
Contact:

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Carrion Crow wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2025 10:45 am However, looking at the definition of bogeymen, there are two entities that appeared in a 2E sourcebook which seem to fit this category - and not the "category" that they were originally placed in, namely the Headless Horseman and the Phantom Lover from Darklords.

Looking at the descriptions of both of these, whilst each of them appears to have a "Domain," neither of them has any history or details of what makes them a Darklord.
In the 4th Edition Dragon Magazine #174 article Domains of Dread: The Endless Road, the Headless Horseman is not a darklord but more a manifestation of a domain itself. The Headless Horseman wanders the Endless Road looking for prey and killing them as per standard Horseman behavior. It has effectively trapped the domain's true darklord.
"I am not omniscient, but I know a lot."
-Mephistopheles from Faust by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
User avatar
Carrion Crow
Agent of the Fraternity
Agent of the Fraternity
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Carrion Crow »

Thanks for the response. I have read that article, as I wanted to see whether this version of the Horseman was an improvement on the original 2E version and more in line with that of the one that appeared in Sleepy Hollow (which is one of the few movies that does capture that Ravenloft feel).

The article was... okay, but not what I was looking for. I like the original Horseman from Darklords (except the 'ones that follow' part), I just don't feel he warrants Darklord status. But he does make a good Bogeyman. It could also explain how and why he appeared in From the Shadows, as whilst I can accept a Bogeyman being controlled (however briefly) by Azalin, Azalin being able to control another Darklord doesn't sit right with me.

And where is the Horseman's original head? Is it madly screaming under Jacqueline Montarri's manor in Krezk? In a glass jar in Castle Avernus? Or have the Vistani got it, along with Jacqueline's original head?
User avatar
Mephisto of the FoS
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1645
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:55 pm
Location: Athens-Greece
Contact:

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

For the Horseman I can see him as a bogeyman, but for the Phantom Lover I like the idea of his domain, For years I have been trying to write a background for him but it is damn hard to explain that lizard's foot (no I don't want him to be a dragonborn) and his control of snakes and gargoyles. I agree with Dr. Rudolph that he could be a 5th magnitude ghost and so far I have researched the following.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Lover

As we don't have a Romeo & Juliet inspired villain in Ravenloft this could be it but then how to explain the lizard's foot?

Is a dragon in human form a good idea?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuvash_d ... 20dragons.

According to folklore, dragons tend to live alone in caves of one sort or another. Perhaps dragons get lonely and seek out human companionship. To alleviate this loneliness, they sometimes take human form and beguile a young princess—they do tend to favor royalty--into a romantic attachment. They take human form, usually impersonating a handsome prince, when they wish to seduce a young lady.

1. Griselda and the Dragon Troubadour
During the Middle Ages, at the court of Eleanor of Aquitaine, there was an annual celebration. Troubadours came from far and wide to compete in poetic contests. (It wasn’t always all about the knights jousting; there was an appreciation of the arts too.)

One year, a mysterious and very handsome young man won the contest. He refused to give his name, but his genteel manners made him a favorite, and he was invited to remain at court. Griselda, the daughter of a lord, fell head over heels for him and begged him to marry her. The troubadour agreed but had two conditions: She must promise to never try to learn his identity and to never seek out his company. She could be with him only when he chose to see her.

The morning after their marriage, she awoke to find herself in a sumptuous palace. She had everything a gal could want. There were servants, fine clothes, jewels, gardens, and entertainment galore. "All of this is yours," her husband said, "but do not forget your promise."

At first, it was easy for Griselda to keep her promise—her husband spent most of his time with her. However, every once in a while, he would disappear into a room she was not allowed to enter. One day, her curiosity got the better of her. She found the door unlocked, and she entered.

She watched, terrified, as her handsome husband was transformed before her eyes into a huge dragon with green scales and powerful wings. She cried out in terror, and her husband saw that she had broken her promise.

We do not know what happened to Griselda after that, nor, for that matter, what happened to the dragon. Perhaps Griselda remarried, a human this time, and the dragon went off to another court to seduce another maiden.


What Is the Moral of These Story?
Be careful of mysterious strangers who show up out of nowhere and won’t tell you anything about their past and who make rather odd demands about “alone time.”
"I am not omniscient, but I know a lot."
-Mephistopheles from Faust by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Mistmaster
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 5:27 pm

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Mistmaster »

The moral could also be "Not be to curious and trust your partner more"
User avatar
Carrion Crow
Agent of the Fraternity
Agent of the Fraternity
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:02 pm

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Carrion Crow »

I think the original folkloric entity upon which the Phantom Lover is based is the Liderc from Hungarain folklore, which Wikipedia has this to say about:

"The third variety is as a Satanic lover, ördögszerető in Hungarian, quite similar to an incubus or succubus. This form of the lidérc flies at night, appearing as a fiery light, a will o' the wisp, or even as a bird of fire. In the northern regions of Hungary and beyond, it is also known as ludvérc, lucfir. In Transylvania and Moldavia it goes by the names of lidérc, lüdérc, and sometimes ördög, literally, the Devil. While in flight, the lidérc sprinkles flames. On earth, it can assume a human shape, usually the shape of a much lamented dead relative or lover. Its footprints are that of a horse. The lidérc enters houses through chimneys or keyholes, brings sickness and doom to its victims. It leaves the house with a splash of flames and dirties the walls. Burning incense and birch branches prevent the lidérc from entering one's dwelling. In the eastern regions of Hungary and beyond, it is said the lidérc is impossible to outrun, it haunts cemeteries, and it must disappear at the first crow of a rooster at dawn."

I think I also read somewhere, that variants of this have the foot of a goose, so it doesn't necessarily need to have the dragon's foot that is "canon." I quite like the idea of a a spectral being that walks normally, but leaves hoofprints - shades of William Hope Hodgson's "Horse of the Invisible."
User avatar
Mephisto of the FoS
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 1645
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:55 pm
Location: Athens-Greece
Contact:

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Mephisto of the FoS »

Carrion Crow wrote: Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:36 am I think the original folkloric entity upon which the Phantom Lover is based is the Liderc from Hungarain folklore.
I didn't know that thats why the Phantom Lover is known also as Leederick.
"I am not omniscient, but I know a lot."
-Mephistopheles from Faust by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Speedwagon
Evil Genius
Evil Genius
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:31 pm
Gender: Male
Location: New Jersey

Re: Bogeymen in Ravneloft

Post by Speedwagon »

And here my (rather simple) thoughts on the Phantom Lover was "the offspring of a bard seducing a dragon and who had issues with how that came about". I definitely didn't know about Liderc or Griselda & the Dragon Troubadour!
Post Reply