Starting RL Campaign for First Time

[Razan de Ullapool]

Hello all - another new member here. I've been gaming with the same crew for a couple of years now playing 3.5 in a custom campaign (I'm a player) but have been wanting a more evil / gothic feel. Therefore, I'm going to start running a RL camp concurrent to our team's other camp.

I've gotten my hands on the RLDMG, RLPHB, and most of the gazetteers (of course have the core books already). I have a few questions I thought you guys might not mind answering although they are way newb compared to the rest of the conversations here:

1: Following the FAQ advise, I think I'm going to run the Grand Conjunction modules starting at Night of the Walking Dead. WoTC has all the GC camps for free on their site but, of course, they are pre-3rd edition. Any suggestions for converting them to 3.5? Is this indeed a good introduction campaign?

2: I'm sure this is explained in the copious amount of documentation I have yet to read, but I get the drift that RL is very low on magic/religion. Does that mean that magic doesn't WORK as well in RL or that it's less likely to find a RL native who uses magic? This is sort of two questions but if one of my players wants to play a mage, are they going to be disappointed in RL b/c they will "suck" or are the people just more superstitious of him? Perhaps both?

I guess that's all for now. Hopefully I'll be frequenting here often and engaging you guys in questions and ideas.

[High Priest Mikhal]

I can't help with that first question (I haven't read them in years). But the second one is rather simple: magic is rare, but not "weaker." Spellcasters are just as powerful in Ravenloft as most other worlds, though they are much fewer in numbers compared to regular campaigns. And yes, the natives will be more superstitious because of magic's rarity--depending on the domain. See the Gazetteers for more info on particular domains.

[Nikolas of the Mists]

The most significant change in Ravenloft is the relative rarity of magic items. It's not at all unusual for PCs to possess about half as many (or even less) magical items as characters in magic rich worlds like faerun or oerth.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

There are a few kinds of magic that really are weaker in Ravenloft, but generally they're that way for a good reason. Divinations which would otherwise be major spoilers in mystery-scenarios are nerfed a bit, and conjurations are somewhat limited by the structure of the demiplane, itself. Raising the dead can be a bit risky, which helps keep the feeling of danger and suspense more "real" for players, as resurrection isn't a sure thing if their PCs should die.

Conversely, the darker necromantic spells are more powerful in the Land of Mists. Using these spells is dangerous for PCs, as it entails rolling a Powers check, but it definitely makes that school scarier in NPCs' hands.

Note that some other classes' abilities are also nerfed a bit, in this game-setting (e.g. Turn Undead is a bit weaker; animal companions are subject to certain darklords' control). It's best to warn all your players that their PCs may have to rely more on resourcefulness and less on abilities, no matter what class they choose or how formidable they're used to being.

If you present these modifications as a challenge to their gaming skills, rather than an arbitrary nerfing, your players may find Ravenloft PCs to be more palatable.

[Strahdsbuddy]

Welcome to the Mists! Although i have not run the Grand Conjunction series myself, i believe there is an alternate order in which to run the adventures which will coincide more logically with your PC's player progression. Hopefully someome will drop that info here for you.

If you are looking for something less grandiose and sweeping than the earth-shattering Grand Conjunction, see if you can get a hold of Book of Crypts, which is an anthology of adventures, some of which are perfect for low-level PCs.

Only advice i can give is not to fall into the normal trap of first time Ravenloft DMs, which is to use the limitations of the gameworld to let YOU have fun while putting your players through hell. I've met a ton of gamers who, when they find out i play Ravenloft exclusively, roll their eyes or groan or otherwise show they had a bad experience with the setting because some DM went on a power trip. It is a great setting, understand it before you run it! Good gaming.

[Razan de Ullapool]

Welcome to the Mists! Although i have not run the Grand Conjunction series myself, i believe there is an alternate order in which to run the adventures which will coincide more logically with your PC's player progression. Hopefully someome will drop that info here for you.

Yeah, this is detailed in the FAQ and I've already reordered them as such, but thanks for the warning.

If you are looking for something less grandiose and sweeping than the earth-shattering Grand Conjunction, see if you can get a hold of Book of Crypts, which is an anthology of adventures, some of which are perfect for low-level PCs.

Never heard of that. I'll try and find it. I rather like the antibellem (sic?) introduction of Souragne from the first module of the conjunction. That should be fun.

Only advice i can give is not to fall into the normal trap of first time Ravenloft DMs, which is to use the limitations of the gameworld to let YOU have fun while putting your players through hell. I've met a ton of gamers who, when they find out i play Ravenloft exclusively, roll their eyes or groan or otherwise show they had a bad experience with the setting because some DM went on a power trip. It is a great setting, understand it before you run it! Good gaming.

This is interesting because I read it EVERYWHERE. Every other paragraph of the DMG is peppered with "be nice to your players or they won't have fun and won't come back." Obviously I'll be taking that to heart but nevertheless I find it interesting historically.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I don't know if I would start with the grand conjunction, exactly. Some of the GC modules are great modules (NotWD, FoG, and parts of FtS IMHO), and some are not so great, but still decent as stand-alone modules. But the GC as a series isn't really such a great intro to the setting.

The reason I say this is because world-altering cataclysms and high-magical tinkering with the planar order are not really representative of the themes of RL. NotWD as a stand-alone, is a perfect representative. Mystery, low-magic, a serial killer, hordes of undead attacking a sleepy hamlet, it's got it all. But by the time you get to the end of FtS and into RoE, suddenly it's mostly watching big bad NPC's duke it out while you bring the magical whosits together to collapse the planar reordering. It's more like planescape or FR. (Not necessarily bad, but not the true RL style. At least in my opinion).


While I have used FtS very recently, and have run all the other GC modules except ToD, some of them multiple times. They all have their moments, but if I were introducing a group to RL, I might stick to the more personal, less epic horror. Maybe just run the 1st four of the series for now, then go into something like Chilling Tales, the book of Crypts, or the various Children of the Night series. coming back to the last 2 GC modules (the only two that really feature the GC as anything more than a sidenote) later when the players really care about and understand the world somewhat.

Just my 2 cents...

[Razan de Ullapool]

Just my 2 cents...

I really appreciate this opinion! I hadn't read further than NotWD and your experience is very useful in this regard. I'm trying not to inundate myself with information (reading 5 gazetteers, DMG, PHB, and various other things like Libris Mordum and the Denizens of Darkness and Dread) and just jump into the first campaign.

I get the distinct feeling that most of those books are for people looking to build their own adventures - something I certainly strive to do but given I've had no introduction to RL firsthand it's a bit heavy reading. I was reading the DMG last night about how to build a village, sizing the number of people and was like... yick! Way over my head right now.

On a side note - has anyone had any experience keeping a blog of an adventure as it unfolds? It's something I've wanted to do with my current campaign I'm playing in. More or less just a historical account of what we did each time we got together. Just thought it might be cool. Could maybe post some pertinent maps and such after the players fully explore an area.

[Joël of the FoS]

On a side note - has anyone had any experience keeping a blog of an adventure as it unfolds? It's something I've wanted to do with my current campaign I'm playing in. More or less just a historical account of what we did each time we got together. Just thought it might be cool. Could maybe post some pertinent maps and such after the players fully explore an area.

Welcome in.

FYI, there are many campaign journals in the Veranda section of the site. Indeed, it's the best way to keep track of what goes on in the campaign!

Since you are in the planing stage of your campaign, may I suggest the "NOTES ON THE ' MAKING OF ' A CAMPAIGN" in the USS 2003 netbook? (in the library here).

The official things are OK, but it will never replace an home made campaign tailored for your players, where you use parts of official adventures mixed with netbooks ideas and your own. So you could start with NotWD, go elsewhere and go back to the other GC adventures once in a while in the campaign, while you add other fun things to do in between.

At this stage, the list of canon and fan made stuff can be useful too (see the Mausoleum)

Joël

[HuManBing]

The Grand Conjunction modules aren't that well combined in terms of cohesion and continuity. I honestly think TSR's staff just hammered together four modules, and then wrote two more at the end to say "look, it all fits together! ... sorta... *ahem!*..."

You've already addressed the main problem in the initial order (namely that the adventuring levels rise and fall like a honeymoon blanket instead of progressing steadily upwards). The only other main advice I would offer is:

* Don't run through them consecutively - sprinkle some unrelated quests here and there between them to give your PCs a breather and to enjoy the mood of Ravenloft, and

* Do introduce something small that the GC ads have in common. Maybe each one gives the PCs a chance to interact with a person, or see a symbol, or hear a catchphrase, that is strangely similar from each one. In my campaign, I had Azalin mastermind the entire set of six adventures, and in each one the PCs deal with a memorable character who is actually a disguised Kargat member, and they had a secondary objective to get a small magical item that was somehow related to the Demiplane or mists. They didn't tie it all together until From the Shadows, when they get to see some of Azalin's field notes, which links the Kargat and the items without any possibility of misunderstanding.

Hope this helps! There was a thread where I'd written some ideas about rejigging the GC, as that's easily my favorite set of adventures.

Edit: There are a couple of threads, but this post links to a few threads and so is a good starting place.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I get the distinct feeling that most of those books are for people looking to build their own adventures

Yes, if you want pre-made adventures for RL, you're going to have to stick with 2e modules and update them, or look around online (here and elsewhere) for fan-made stuff, or settle for Dark Tales & Disturbing Legends, the only 3e RL book that comes close to full adventures. (And most of the adventures
in there need some DM work as well, since they are meant to be sketches of adventures, not finished modules.)

On a side note - has anyone had any experience keeping a blog of an adventure as it unfolds?

Nope, never!

[Korumil]

If you're looking for more supplemental material, I would strongly suggest Heroes of Horror and Book of Vile Darkness. They're both in 3.5 so no annoying conversions and they have both rules for some pretty wicked spells and items, as well as notes and ideas for purely roleplaying theme and mood. Good luck with the new campaign, it's always good to hear new people are taking it up.

[Nikolas of the Mists]

Are the players of your Ravenloft campaign native to Ravenloft, or are they outsiders that have been swallowed up into the mists and spit out into this strange new world?

If both players and DM are newer to RL I highly encourage the outlanders campaign scenario. It's a lot less stressful on both players and DM because there is a lot less you need to consider and keep in mind. For the players it gives them the sense of playing something familiar (stereotypical fantasy campaign characters) while keeping them in a state of uncertainty (will this spell/prayer/magic item work here, and if it does, will it work the way its supposed to?). PCs in these campaigns will be very cohesive as they share a common goal -- wanting to escape the mists and return home. The limitation of this campaign is that you already have the apex and conclusion of your campaign set.

Campaigns that feature a player cast native to Ravenloft require a lot out of both player and GM simply because of the detail of the setting. If you start with an outlanders campaign in Ravenloft you can add or replace PCs to your game down the road with natives to the demiplane as both yourself and your players become more familiar with it.

If you do choose to run your game with Ravenloft natives you might consider having them all be natives to the same domain, and also choose a starting domain which has a lot in common with settings they already know a lot about. Darkon and Mordent are pretty popular realms for first time players and GMs in Ravenloft for this reason.

If you don't mind doing a little bit of conversion and substitution for encounters, old AD&D 2E Ravenloft has an adventure or two for low levels which are really unique and set the scene (The Created; a creepy intro adventure in Odiare, and Howls in the Night; a unique murder mystery set in Mordent are a couple which come to mind).

[Razan de Ullapool]

If you don't mind doing a little bit of conversion and substitution for encounters, old AD&D 2E Ravenloft has an adventure or two for low levels which are really unique and set the scene (The Created; a creepy intro adventure in Odiare, and Howls in the Night; a unique murder mystery set in Mordent are a couple which come to mind).

This is very helpful, thanks! I'll look into both those modules. I feel like such a newb DM going with premade modules but I feel very uncomfortable DMing Ravenloft. I've been making stuff up easily in a regular fantasy setting (dungeon crawling generic D&D) for a couple of years.

As far as the players and natives, one thing several of my players have mentioned is wanting to play characters native to RL. However, a few were wanting to instead play outlanders. I had this idea that the outlanders could get drawn into RL by the mists (as is customary) and meet the other PCs. I thought this might make an interesting split in the party between those that are just trying to find a way home and those who are on other quests (kill that baron who kidnapped my sister!). It might also be a means where a LG paladin from the outland MIGHT join up with an evil character in RL if he felt it was more important to get home.

Again, I have no idea how this would play out but they are some things that I'm interested in. My players are veteran roleplayers who have been playing together since 1st edition (but have never - any of them - set foot in RL) so I have confidence in their role playing.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

The Children of the Night Ravenloft supplements each have a bunch of short adventures to offer, although some are of questionable quality. One of those, CotN: Fiends, is still available for free download at http://www.kargatane.com, so you can look it over and decide if the others are worth tracking down.

Chilling Tales, like the Book of Crypts, contains a variety of adventures. They're centered around the monster-hunting career of Dr. Rudolph Van Richten, so would technically have taken place more than a decade before the time of the Gazetteers. However, you can change the time-frame of Van Richten's life and/or your campaign, or else stage the adventures with a different NPC in VR's role.

Of course, there are tons of potential adventures, or NPCs ready-made to star in adventures, in the Kargatane site's Books of S___, as well as our own Undead Sea Scrolls, Quoth the Raven, and other fan netbooks.