Comments on the 4th Ed fact thread

[Nathan of the FoS]

Returning to an earlier question--What would pose a threat to a community of 2250 people?

Depends on how you define "threat", I suppose. 80 orc raiders wouldn't be anywhere near enough to threaten the existence of the community by making a frontal assault on the village itself, but they would certainly be enough to swoop down on a homestead and burn it to the ground, and then do it again a week later, and a week after that, and so on and so forth. Losing 10 people a week to violent attack may not sound like that much, but over a year it would be 520 people--a quarter of the population!

Well before that happens the homesteads would be abandoned and everyone would either have retreated to the village or fled the area entirely. As long as everyone's in the village they're safe, but how are they going to keep themselves fed?

Militiamen aren't going to leave their own homes and families to chase orc raiders across the countryside, and if the soldiers march out to deal with them en masse they're leaving themselves vulnerable to ambush--AND leaving the village undefended. So--what this community needs is a) a fresh influx of troops to bolster the local garrison, so that some of them can go after the orcs while the others hold down the fort, or b) (the D&D option) a small, mobile group of very dangerous people who can dedicate themselves entirely to dealing with the orc menace.

[Nathan of the FoS]

In a semi-related observation--I'm not sure this 60/40 split for village/farms population is accurate. It wasn't until quite recently that it became possible for agriculture to produce enough for there to be more city-dwellers than rural population.

[alhoon]

Yeap. I agree.
Even if the orcs kill 2 people per week, the damage to property and morale will be tremendous if they keep doing it. Also The community has 2250 people. 50 people violently killed in a few months or even a year has a great impact. Most of these 2250 people know each other or are relatives.
And how many people mature to adulthood in a place with 2250 adults (so about 700 children)? About 45. Now add to the figure those that will die of malnurishment because there's not enough food and you will see that if the orcs harass the country side, the population suffers and diminishes.

However, if the lord commands 150 of the 350 militia to arm themselves and accompany 40 of his soldiers they could beat back the orcs. The problem is that an army of 200 people can be seen by the orcs and they will either flee or prepare themselves.

The orcs flee: They will come back a few months later and burn a few more cottages. The town will have to live with constant fear of when the orcs will come, loot, burn and kill.
The orcs fight back: Yes, 80 orcs would lose when fighting 40 soldiers and 150 militia... but at what cost? At least 100 people will die in the fight.

So yes, those 4-5 swords for hire come in handy since they could do things the soldiers cannot. And if they die trying? Well, there can always more adventures to be found as the militia and the soldiers chase the orcs for a few months of peace.

In a semi-related observation--I'm not sure this 60/40 split for village/farms population is accurate. It wasn't until quite recently that it became possible for agriculture to produce enough for there to be more city-dwellers than rural population.

I agree. In middle ages 75-80% lived in villages and not in towns. And by "town" we mean a settlement with more than 1000 people.

However: this is a town. the 900 people are town citizens living outside the town's walls or so. I'm certain there are more villages in the area, numbering 1000-2000 more people.
I believe the rural population (villages, hamlets, farms) will be about 60-70% in 4th edition. And those people will live close to towns or "power centers".

[DocBeard]

As for orcs getting support from other parts of the horde etc while the humans don't get support from others... that's un-orclike.

Howso? The orcs are chaotic evil jerks, sure, but that doesn't make them stupid, it makes them bullies. And a bully always likes backup. That's how these things form in the first place-one thug pushes another thug around as a goon, and it spreads exponentially.

I wouldn't say they're an organized army, but an Orc warlord who won't give his warband some support is an Orc warlord soon to be sans a horde.

[alhoon]

Well intelligence 8 makes them not bright. And the orcs don't form hordes in 4th edition I think. Clans of 200-300 yes, but not hordes of 5000+ orcs. That's for the evil mastermind to do!
Kill him and the "horde" collapses. Now an army would be hard pressed to cut it's way through thousands of orcs to reach the head of the serpent. A small band of 4-5 people however? (6th-7th lvl by the way)

[Jester of the FoS]

This is also the BIG town for the region. In theory the kingdom has fallen and this is one of the larger bastions of light. It's not a dinky place, it's the center of adventuring until the PCs move to metropolises (metropoli?) or get planar travel.

[alhoon]

This hole in the mud is the center of adventuring until you get to paragon levels?!

Man, they make post-Requiem Darkon seem a happy place!

[alhoon]

The rituals kick butt! After the numbing review from Jester I didn't expect them to be so good.

I sincirelly consider stealing them for my 3rd edition games. It frees up slots for the spellcasters to use other things instead of having a memorized "cure disease" just in case they meet a disease carrier.

Not to mention that I'm impressed by the effects!
The find secret doors ritual gives a verysignificant bonus to the perception checks; equal to the arcana result of the ritual caster!

The cure disease has a chance to kill the patient if you're lousy! More often you'll just leave him unconsious or wounded.

However raise dead at 8th level seems a bit... out. It works as ressurect, but if you're paragon the costs are steep. Now, if you're epic your friends wouldn't just need a few jars of healing salve, they will need a wagon-load.
For heroic tier the cost is 500 gp, for paragon 5000 gp and for epic 50k!
You also have a -1 to your checks for 3 milestones whatever this is.
NOTE: Don't believe the picture where the dragonborn tries to rise his ally while the rest are fighting. The ritual needs 8 hours.

[Jester of the FoS]

According to the action point rules from D&DX, you reach one milestones for every two encounters without an extended rest. This is probably meant to balance out with the rest-heals-all. You keep going to get action points and remove penalties.

[alhoon]

Ouch... so it is half a level.

[alhoon]

To continue on the army/militia subject: The Winterhaven in Keep of the shadowfell has 10 regulars and a militia of 50 people. 977 people. That seems reasonable enough. Why only 10 regulars? Because that's what the lord can pay!

[alhoon]

The demon god of the gnolls is a solo 28th level demon. Quite a disappointment.

[Jester of the FoS]

The demon god of undead and orcs is 33, only 5 levels difference. He's likely in the Top 10 of baddies. 30-ish is meant to be god-killing epic powers. PCs hit 30 and they're demigods.

[Strahdsbuddy]

sorry if this was asked (BIG thread here) but is there some sort of converter available for 4E? I take it we all have a lot of 3E books (And probably 2E books since we are Ravenloft lovers) it would be a shame not to continue to use them for such a silly reason as a whole new game system!

I'm looking for either a converstion table that will go 3 to 4 (and back), or one that will include 2E as well, or a nice converter box that will plug into my TV, cause there isn't enough crap on my entertainment center.

[alhoon]

No conventer possible at this moment. The characters that fit the roles that exist in 4th edition can possibly be converted, others not yet.

I.e you can convert nuking wizards and sorcerers, especially sorcerers but not the enchanter with his charmed "friends" or the diviner.
You can convert many if not all fighter types since the feats they usually had still exist in a form (either as feats or powers)
You can convert rangers that focused on the bow.
You can convert most thief types.

All the above convertions will take some effort though and they won't be absolute.