Comments on the 4th Ed fact thread

[Isabella]

Because she's a flaming shell of armor that floats above the ground?

Succibi have change shape in their stat blocks, these new angels don't. I'm not saying it can't work - we haven't seen all the angels yet, after all, or maybe there's some things that are in the angel entry that they didn't show us. But the text in the blurb makes me think these things are intentionally inhuman looking.

I don't know about these "angel roles" either, since that makes her both more and less ambiguous. What kind of angel is she? That seems like it determines a lot of her actions. What god does she serve? But I could see those working. I preferred her as an eladrin, though, something I don't think she can be anymore and keep her outsider status.

But hey. You never know.

[Jester of the FoS]

Well, we're only looking at combat stats. There's no reason one can't have an out-of-combat disguise ability or know a shapechanging ritual.

[alhoon]

Actually I would prefer Isolde the angel to remain good and merciful Jester.

[Sorti]

I have a sneaking suspicion that D&D isn't going to make the switch to 4e very well.

Corrected.

Jokes apart, in 4e all monsters have custom abilities, so Isolde can just be an unique angel, or an angel with change shape, or something like that.

So, what's the problem? What, you did actually pay for a manual that you can't use because it has only stats for random encounters and nothing to build your adventures on? Oh well, at least now you're wiser

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Remember, not all the new angels are necessarily 100% cold-hearted and dispassionate. Rather, their creeds and demeanors can tend to reflect the ethos of their divine patrons (the "cause worthy of their attention" option of payment). If Isolde once served a deity who strongly advocates compassion and heartfelt expression -- Lliira from FR, for one, would be a perfect match -- then she could easily have adopted such qualities as a consequence of service, even if she's (ostensibly) an angel of vengeance or similar.

As for her human form, that's an easy fix. She might not have been able to shapechange via her own power, originally, but her deity could surely transform her if necessary ... and we already know that remaining in a single human form is the price Isolde paid, for permission to chace the GC into Ravenloft.

[Isabella]

From what I've heard of the feywild, I think I'd prefer her to stay an eladrin - the twisting is reminiscent of a faerietale effect. But that doesn't really carry the same prestige as "celestial", and I doubt the eladrin will be keeping their outsider status anyway.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Maybe she'd served a deity who's worshipped primarily by eladrin? That would maintain both her outsider status and the "ghaele" connection.

Of course, with the "outsider" designation going bye-bye, we'll have to come up with a different set of criteria for who is or isn't eligible for a reality wrinkle.

[Jester of the FoS]

Other than the name, eldarin are completely different.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Hmmm. From a first read, the Power-Swap Feat option sounds like a suitable way to stat up a 4E version of Meredoth. (I'm the one who wrote the old geezer up for the NS Gaz, so I'm kind of attached to that cast-any-darned-PHB-spell-he-wants perk of his.) To preserve his flexibility, we could say that the DPs have restored his free access to every power he'd ever swapped out for in the past, before becoming a darklord.

[Jester of the FoS]

Well, the power-swap feat applies to other classes. So unless Meredoth is swapping out wizard dailies for warlock dailies it should be a problem.

Although, he could be a necromancer/wizard once that class is released.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Yes, some combination of both necromancer and wizard is what I'd been thinking of. Which class predominates would depend on which suits him best, as a baseline.

A wizard with swapped-in warlock powers might work nicely for Easan, however.

[Dr Bloodworth]

I'm sort of concerned by the ramping-up of HP (for both PCs and monsters) and the corresponding lack of ramping-up of weapon damage. Kinda like my problem with the old Everquest RPG, it's like fighting a monster with EQ hit points with DnD-balanced weapons. I.e. not fun and taking sixteen hours to kill a mob of goblins.

Now, we've not seen enough. I don't know if it includes a way to ramp up the damage, whether through weapon specialization, weapons that level up with the PCs, or something similar to the feature of the OA samurai where they can pay to awaken abilities in their swords. Unless it does that... ehh, I dunno...

[Jester of the FoS]

It's only really a ramping up of hp for first level. Monster, especially at high levels, will have less, since they won't suddenly have 3x their CR in HD. Especially dragons.
Weapon damage seems about the same but there are now powers that do 3x that damage at first level, and likely only goes up from there.

[DocBeard]

Remember, not all the new angels are necessarily 100% cold-hearted and dispassionate. Rather, their creeds and demeanors can tend to reflect the ethos of their divine patrons (the "cause worthy of their attention" option of payment). If Isolde once served a deity who strongly advocates compassion and heartfelt expression -- Lliira from FR, for one, would be a perfect match -- then she could easily have adopted such qualities as a consequence of service, even if she's (ostensibly) an angel of vengeance or similar.

Precicely. The idea was, "Do not have a monster that all parties cannot concievably face." not "Restrict monster options.". She sure has heck had a sense of duty, too; she followed a target into freaking Ravenloft, after all. Plus, we're forgetting something.

She's a Darklord. The Dark Powers can twist your body, your powers, your anything. Maybe that's what happens when Outsiders invest themselves so wholely in Ravenloft that they become a part of the landscape; sort of a reverse transposession, where the demon takes on humanoid features in order to better "fit in" to the Dark Powers's world.

This would fit with stories of spiritual beings being able to disguise themselves as humans, or be trapped as humans, until a ritual is preformed to allow them their true form. It also gives us a new angle for Outsider stories; instead of just transposession, outsiders could scheme to manipulate PCs into getting components for them to be able to assume their true forms, spiritual protection for when they're stuck in weak fleshly prisons, or even something a little less outright sinister-like a devil or demon getting transposessed and asking the PCs for help dealing with this new, terrifing "conscience" thing.

One of the fundamental aspects of Ravenloft, after all, is that no one but no one is immune to being put in the position of 'terrified victim', weather they be mortal, spirit, undead, monsterous, or an alien abberation. And what would frighten a powerful, alien-minded spiritual being more than the chance of being warped into a weak-limbed meat-body with limited awareness of anything and a sickening lack of self control over chemical-based biological urges?

Starting to like it.

[Mangrum]

Isolde isn't a darklord. She's just a celestial who exerts a portion of her will to temper the destructive effects of her reality wrinkle.