The Dark Powers...

[Spiteful Crow]

... am I the only one that imagines them as having good intentions as opposed to being evil bastards?

[Darkknight]

Please explain... I might be able to stretch it that they are trying to teach evil people a lesson by cursing them and making them suffer but I just can't see it. How are you seeing it?

[HuManBing]

Some have said that the Dark Powers work by sequestering truly evil characters in the Demiplane of Dread, so they can't hurt other worlds.

Thus, that means the Dark Powers are actually performing a good task. This is bolstered by the fact that they seem to punish evil by giving evildoers harsh curses, etc.

Whether that makes the DPs themselves good is another question entirely.

Also, it's worth noting that plenty of very evil people in other worlds get away with doing things far worse than Ravenloft's Darklords without being imprisoned. Cross-setting copyright and similar mechanical considerations may have more to do with this, however.

[Spiteful Crow]

I see it as them cursing evil characters to show them the error of their ways. If Godefrey would stop being a jerk, his wife and daughter would stop harassing him every night. If Gregor would stop trying to hog the spotlight, people would be able to go out and find themselves some food instead of having to eat soylent grain. If Nathan tried to encourage peaceful co-existence with humans, he wouldn't have to be so embarassed of being forced into human form.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Nah, I've seen people suggest that before. There's no right or wrong answer, really--the DPs are deliberately left vague in regards to their motivations for individual DMs to define for their own campaigns.

[steveflam]

Some might say the DP's reward some Dl's in their own sick way.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I see it as them cursing evil characters to show them the error of their ways.

And this has worked how many times, exactly? If they're out to convince evil characters to reform, they don't seem to have achieved a very good track record.

But what the hey, YMMV.

[Spiteful Crow]

And this has worked how many times, exactly? If they're out to convince evil characters to reform, they don't seem to have achieved a very good track record.

Good intentions, not necessarily good ideas.

Nah, I've seen people suggest that before. There's no right or wrong answer, really--the DPs are deliberately left vague in regards to their motivations for individual DMs to define for their own campaigns.

Just checking. From what I've seen on this forum, the majority seems to think they're evil jerks.

[Steve Miller]

... am I the only one that imagines them as having good intentions as opposed to being evil bastards?

I've run a couple of campaigns where I viewed the DPs that way.

In that setup, the PCs are examples of what the darklords could be if they'd just shape up.

[Hashmalum]

I've always had a hard time seeing the DPs as being good, but that doesn't mean that they're evil. I personally tend towards some form of the basic theory that the dark powers are many, and that some of them are good while some of them are evil. Perhaps the nature of the demiplane is such that open war between them would tear the morally-sensitive planar fabric, so they settle for a proxy war using mortals as pawns--the curses come from the good DPs, while the blessings come from the evil DPs. The DPs as incomprehensible beings as far above human morality as humans are above the social codes of honeybees works for me too though. I suspect that some of "the DPs are evil" notion comes from conflating the corrupting Land with the demiplane itself; I view the Land (as in, the actual physical matter of the realm) as being corrupted by its close tie to its local resident darklord, not by the DPs, and this corruption could be reversed if the darklord was redeemed. The immaterial planar fabric that the matter exists within doesn't necessarily need to be tainted.

[HuManBing]

One idea of DPs that I am toying with is that they're performing experiments into the moral nature of lesser beings. That would explain why so many of the cursed denizens in RL seem to have failed "tests" and are being "punished" for it.

It also explains why the DPs are not consistently good or evil. They're almost like grand scientists on a deific level - the type that would put two pack-bonded puppies together in a cage with plenty of water and no food for a few weeks "just to see what would happen".

[alhoon]

I would say that good people don't torment evil people. Evil people that are sadists and pretend they're good people (or at least righteous) torment evil people.
Also innocent people get tormented/killed and suffer in the plots of the Darklords. There is much evil in Ravenloft that could have been avoided if the DP were good.


If the DP were good IMO, there would lock the Darklords away in empty domains without awarding special powers and tormenting curses, and would make the domains small, without people there to suffer. Just a like a large prison cell (perhaps even a nice one) in order tokeep the rest of the Multiverse safe from those evil people.

What of the gifts the DP give when they notice someone on the path of evil? Why would a good deity grant them? I can see the punishment as fitting, since at the start a single frustrating curse could help someone repent and understand his errors. Like punishing your children when they do something bad.

[Steve Miller]

I would say that good people don't torment evil people.

What about the Old Testament tale of Job?

Also innocent people get tormented/killed and suffer in the plots of the Darklords. There is much evil in Ravenloft that could have been avoided if the DP were good.

What if those people are pre-destined to suffer? What if they ONLY exist so the darklords have clear choices between doing good and doing evil?

If the DP were good IMO, there would lock the Darklords away in empty domains without awarding special powers and tormenting curses, and would make the domains small, without people there to suffer.

How could they possibly reform if they just sat in an empty room without the opportunity to change their evil ways?

What of the gifts the DP give when they notice someone on the path of evil? Why would a good deity grant them?

To ultimately make the person walking down the wrong path to turn back of their own free will.

(Here's another option I've also used in a campaign: The dark powers are both good AND evil. They're a pantheon, just like any other fantasy world. In fact, there are nine of them... one for each alignment.)

[The Nightmare Man]

Some have said that the Dark Powers work by sequestering truly evil characters in the Demiplane of Dread, so they can't hurt other worlds.

Thus, that means the Dark Powers are actually performing a good task. This is bolstered by the fact that they seem to punish evil by giving evildoers harsh curses, etc.

The Edmund Burke quote comes to mind here.

Of course, that particular quote doesn't fully explain the reasons why "good men", such as the Dark Powers, who do attempt to do something against evil, allow the innocents of Ravenloft to suffer at the behest of the ruling Darklords.

It could even be nothing more than the Dark Powers believing that some innocents must suffer so as to provide the Darklords with the temptations they require to further corrupt themselves. This then provides the Dark Powers with the reasons they need to punish the Darklords further for their future evil transgressions.

Whether that makes the DPs themselves good is another question entirely.

In their own twisted arrogance... perhaps they believe they actually are achieving "some good" by removing evil beings from every corner of the multiverse. And that's as far as their willing to look into their own actions.

Also, it's worth noting that plenty of very evil people in other worlds get away with doing things far worse than Ravenloft's Darklords without being imprisoned. Cross-setting copyright and similar mechanical considerations may have more to do with this, however.

Perhaps.

Or it may simply be a matter of acknowledging that the Dark Powers are not omniscient and that they can only deal with the evil people that they are currently aware of. It may take time and effort for them to locate and then remove every singular being of evil from all the worlds across the planes. And there may even be places where the reach of the Dark Powers cannot properly extend -- whether because divine influence denies their presence or some other power prevents them from reaching into a particular crystal sphere.

[Isabella]

I would say that good people don't torment evil people.

What about the Old Testament tale of Job?

Well, for one thing, Job wasn't evil in the slightest. For another, that seems to open up a whole different can of worms.