Tired of Dungeoneering?
- Le Noir Faineant
- Rafe, Agent of the Fraternity
- Posts: 4522
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:25 pm
- Location: The Wind Isles
Tired of Dungeoneering?
Hello,
With Heroes of Battle coming along, WotC seems to work against the still very popluar form of gaming, the *Into-the-Manor/Dungeon-and-get-out-alive* concept most older settings favour. Now, I wonder, how would a good RPG campaign look WITHOUT any Dungeon or House of Horrors in it...
Everytime I tried to leave dungeoneering out of the plot, the campaign got finally messed up by the players...
What are your experiences and suggestions?
With Heroes of Battle coming along, WotC seems to work against the still very popluar form of gaming, the *Into-the-Manor/Dungeon-and-get-out-alive* concept most older settings favour. Now, I wonder, how would a good RPG campaign look WITHOUT any Dungeon or House of Horrors in it...
Everytime I tried to leave dungeoneering out of the plot, the campaign got finally messed up by the players...
What are your experiences and suggestions?
- Drinnik Shoehorn
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 1795
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 pm
- Location: Tiptree, Home of Jam
- Le Noir Faineant
- Rafe, Agent of the Fraternity
- Posts: 4522
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:25 pm
- Location: The Wind Isles
- Drinnik Shoehorn
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 1795
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 pm
- Location: Tiptree, Home of Jam
My games are heavily influenced by an old Call of Cthulhu GM I used to game with. More investigation, more interaction with NPCs, fewer mausloeums. I'm not saying I get rid of them entirely, but there aren't alot in my games.
"Blood once flowed, a choice was made
Travel by night the smallest one bade" The Ballad of the Taverners.
The Galen Saga: 2000-2005
Travel by night the smallest one bade" The Ballad of the Taverners.
The Galen Saga: 2000-2005
- Malus Black
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:43 am
- Location: Norway
I really don't like dungeon crawling. It's artificial, pointless, and dull, even more so in Ravenloft than in other settings. In fact, I have never used anything resembling a dungeon in my Ravenloft games, and I've removed most dungeons from the official modules (most of which were just atmospheric dungeon crawls). I'm lucky enough that my players don't like dungeons either, preferring the freedom of an open campaign. So if WotC is stepping away from dungeons, I'm happy.
As for suggestions on how to run a dungeon-light game, here's a few, although you probably know them:
1) Make it open, so that it's not just a dungeon with less walls - little is worse than when the DM says "no, you can't go there yet."
2) Play up mystery-solving and intrigue, but don't overdo it, and make sure there's a solid story behind it all.
3) Action. Players need action. Many people think that mystery adventures can't have action, but they're wrong, it's just a different kind of action than dungeon-action. Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.
As for suggestions on how to run a dungeon-light game, here's a few, although you probably know them:
1) Make it open, so that it's not just a dungeon with less walls - little is worse than when the DM says "no, you can't go there yet."
2) Play up mystery-solving and intrigue, but don't overdo it, and make sure there's a solid story behind it all.
3) Action. Players need action. Many people think that mystery adventures can't have action, but they're wrong, it's just a different kind of action than dungeon-action. Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.
Last edited by Malus Black on Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
I don't really do dungeon crawls. Yes, the PCs do enter castles, caves and lairs but it ain't like a video game where you fight your way to reach a big monster while gathering treasures along the way.
My PCs might have to enter a cave but it's all part of a bigger campaign. I mostly use castles and outdoor settings in my games. I'm actually forcing myself to bring back dungeon crawls.
My PCs might have to enter a cave but it's all part of a bigger campaign. I mostly use castles and outdoor settings in my games. I'm actually forcing myself to bring back dungeon crawls.
De retour dans les Brumes, enfin!
- Le Noir Faineant
- Rafe, Agent of the Fraternity
- Posts: 4522
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:25 pm
- Location: The Wind Isles
As I said, I am definitely looking forward to *Heroes of Battle* for some more *outdoor* form of campaign... Also, the *Penumbra: En Route* series is useful to evade dungeons...
I personally have noted my tendency for large dungeons in the last few adventures... *Lost City of Gaxmoor* and *The Nightmare Lands* are maybe dungeons with walls, but still the players are involved in such an action...
I personally have noted my tendency for large dungeons in the last few adventures... *Lost City of Gaxmoor* and *The Nightmare Lands* are maybe dungeons with walls, but still the players are involved in such an action...
- Malus Black
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:43 am
- Location: Norway
A preview of Heroes of Battle is out. Curse WotC, making all these neat books I want to buy - Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, and now Heroes of Battle? I'm running out of money here.
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
I think that's the idea.Malus Black wrote:A preview of Heroes of Battle is out. Curse WotC, making all these neat books I want to buy - Sandstorm, Lords of Madness, and now Heroes of Battle? I'm running out of money here.
De retour dans les Brumes, enfin!
- Jester of the FoS
- Jester of the Dark Comedy
- Posts: 4536
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:19 am
- Location: A Canadian from Canadia
I'm currently playing a game in the Forgotten Realms dealing with a massive war brewing between Sembia and Cormyr with the players smack dab in the middle. Right now it's kind of a Korean/Cold War being fought via the Dales but its threatening to spill over.
That book will be a godsend for when the big battles start.
That book will be a godsend for when the big battles start.
- alhoon
- Invisible Menace
- Posts: 8854
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:46 pm
- Location: Chania or Athens // Greece
I like Dungeons! They have an atmosphere I like and they are fun to DM and to play. I don't have whole campaigns in the dungeons, but I'm sure to put a haunted house here, a deep mine/tunel there or put the villain in the caves in the mountains.
Ahem, Drakov's castle is a dungeon.Malus Black wrote: Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.
"You truly see what a person is made of, when you begin to slice into them" - Semirhage
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia
My DMGuild work!
- Malus Black
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:43 am
- Location: Norway
Which was why I said climbing, not entering. You know, scaling the highest tower of the castle while lightning arches overhead, reching the top and waving the Shadow Insurrection banner to give the signal to attack revolution-style. If anything, sneaking into Misericordia would be the most dungeon-like of those three scenarios, and even that's only if you take the standard approach. After all, nothing prevents you from getting (or forging) an invitation to the masque, or knocking out a servant and taking his clothes, or just bribing a guard to keep his eyes and ears open and report to you later. That's my main problem with the standard fight-your-way-to-the-end dungeons - there's too few options.alhoon wrote:Ahem, Drakov's castle is a dungeon.Malus Black wrote: Remember, there's non-combat action too - rooftop chases, climbing the walls of Drakov's castle to give a signal to your allies, or sneaking into Misericordia at night.
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe
Is but a dream within a dream
-Edgar Allan Poe