"S", the Gentleman Caller, and the Dark Children

[Teravala]

Personally, I expect something more Core-shattering and worthy of the history books. The Grand Conjunction and the Requiem changed the face of the world as the people of the Demiplane know it.
Azalin mucking about with reality wrinkles, overwrites of what passes for natural law in the Demiplane, the Time of Ultimate Darkness, should lead to more than yet another ruined family dynamic.

Me, I'd like it to lead to alternate versions of the Demiplane leaking into this one, depositing extensions to existing lands and alternate versions of known characters.
Such as a human Firan Zal'honan who realised he'd been wrong and has left Darkon accompanied by Irik's ghost, leaving Azalin behind as the embodiment of all his faults. Something to deny and defy.

I'm gonna be honest I completely forgot that this was supposed to culminate in the TOUD. Your definitely correct that it should culminate in something dynamic and possibly world changing. I've always envisioned a large scale battle in the style of the judean christian apocalypse.

[Baron Von Stanton]

As for the ability of a vistana to penetrate the protective capability of the face paint, I definitely want to brush up more on it, been reading the carnival sourcebook but I haven't finished it yet. I do pose three questions though.

1: Would a vistana seer be able to penetrate the carnival in the first place? It is a reality wrinkle of isolde after all, at least while she is there.

Unless she was comparable in power to Madame Eva, I doubt it.

2: Could a Diviner who is actively searching for reality wrinkles find them by lack of sight? Basically by looking for places their sight cant penetrate?

That's how astronomers located the first black holes, though, I would think they would also need to know what they're not looking at as a prerequisite.

3: Do you believe that a dukkar (and here I do mean a male seer) could have the power necessary to see things other vistana cannot? For example things inside a reality wrinkle, or even the future of those using the face paint.

I got the impression that different dukkars had different abilities or unique variations of the Sight. Granted, I know of two dukkars, so take my opinion with a dash of salt.

[Teravala]

I got the impression that different dukkars had different abilities or unique variations of the Sight. Granted, I know of two dukkars, so take my opinion with a dash of salt.

I was gonna say, other than malocchio and hyskosa I dont know of any others, but I kind of feel like in general the dukkar should be on par with madame eva. I ALSO was thinking of how astronwners first found black holes by looking for absence, though as you said a seer would need to be able to know what they were looking for, which could be the case if they were properly informed. As a side note I also think anton misroi would be capable of, at the very least, seeing these holes of non aight, if not straight up be able to penetrate isolde's wrinkle. Also of note is that of age were drawn away from the carnival, even just for a short time, the familiar would no longer have her wrinkle to hide him from the Sight. Convoluted? Absolutely. But which plan of azalin's aren't?

[Rock of the Fraternity]

I got the impression that different dukkars had different abilities or unique variations of the Sight. Granted, I know of two dukkars, so take my opinion with a dash of salt.

I was gonna say, other than malocchio and hyskosa I dont know of any others, but I kind of feel like in general the dukkar should be on par with madame eva. I ALSO was thinking of how astronwners first found black holes by looking for absence, though as you said a seer would need to be able to know what they were looking for, which could be the case if they were properly informed. As a side note I also think anton misroi would be capable of, at the very least, seeing these holes of non aight, if not straight up be able to penetrate isolde's wrinkle. Also of note is that of age were drawn away from the carnival, even just for a short time, the familiar would no longer have her wrinkle to hide him from the Sight. Convoluted? Absolutely. But which plan of azalin's aren't?

The skurra-vera is preventing his own fiendish heritage from manifesting, though. Which would include his own reality wrinkle. Until and unless the paint is removed, the Familiar would just be a scared half-Vistani kid, desperate to get back to the place he grew up in: Carnival.

[alhoon]

Keep in mind that "S" intended to deny Azalin information on the Familiar, and the skurra-vera face paint would hide him. Probably even the Gentleman Caller can't find the kid, if he even dared go close to Isolde.

So Azalin would need to find a replacement or give up on his icky scheme. Which do you think he'd do?

Wait, there is a Dukkar in the Carnival?!

Dukkar have reality wrinkles?!

[Baron Von Stanton]

Keep in mind that "S" intended to deny Azalin information on the Familiar, and the skurra-vera face paint would hide him. Probably even the Gentleman Caller can't find the kid, if he even dared go close to Isolde.

So Azalin would need to find a replacement or give up on his icky scheme. Which do you think he'd do?

Wait, there is a Dukkar in the Carnival?!

Dukkar have reality wrinkles?!

The Familiar may be a dukkar, but as mentioned, the skurra-vera prevents his fiendish and dukkar powers, if any, from manifesting. Malocchio (along with the Familiar, if the latter comes of age without his face paint) inherited his reality wrinkle from his father, the Gentleman Caller, who is an incubus. Having said that, dukkars are inherently invisible to the Vistani's otherwise powerful divination abilities if the former are literally not within line of sight.

[alhoon]

THAT I remember! Not all Dukkar are GC's children and not all GC's children are Dukkar.
And I seem to recall that Azalin was seeking to catch the children of the GC, and that just Malocchio is a Dukkar. I could be wrong though

[Teravala]

Keep in mind that "S" intended to deny Azalin information on the Familiar, and the skurra-vera face paint would hide him. Probably even the Gentleman Caller can't find the kid, if he even dared go close to Isolde.

So Azalin would need to find a replacement or give up on his icky scheme. Which do you think he'd do?

Wait, there is a Dukkar in the Carnival?!

Dukkar have reality wrinkles?!

I believe that technically, there is simply a half vistani half fiend in the carnival. We are uncertain if he has the sight or not, as there is very little info about The familiar, but strictly speaking, no he is not. He DOES have a reality wrinkle, because of his half fiend heritage however. One dukkar has a reality wrinkle for sure, being Malocchio, but I feel like it would stand to reason that most of, if not all of the GC's half vistani male children would manifest as Dukkar. But maybe I am oversimplifying things?

[Teravala]

THAT I remember! Not all Dukkar are GC's children and not all GC's children are Dukkar.
And I seem to recall that Azalin was seeking to catch the children of the GC, and that just Malocchio is a Dukkar. I could be wrong though

As far as I can tell there are only 2 Dukkar ever explicitly named in RL products, Malocchio and Hyskosa. My head cannon is that all of the GC's male children are probably Dukkar, but that is merely my take on things, and not supported explicitly by any printed products.

[alhoon]

But GC has children with non-Vistani too. That Drakov child I think is not a vistani. And he has a daughter too, I think...
They are all half-fiends and they are all very interesting for Azalin's purposes, but I think the key is "GC-child" not "Dukkar"

[Teravala]

whoops according to the wiki there are actually 4 Dukkar named, but I think 2 only exist in the novel series, which I view as questionably cannon at best.

[Teravala]

But GC has children with non-Vistani too. That Drakov child I think is not a vistani. And he has a daughter too, I think...
They are all half-fiends and they are all very interesting for Azalin's purposes, but I think the key is "GC-child" not "Dukkar"

The Drakov child's mother is a giomorgo, so technically he is 1/4 vistani, just like Malocchio.
edit: "Vigo was born in 705 BC to a giomorgo imprisoned as a concubine to Vlad Drakov This was likely Isabella Aderre when she was held captive. Although Vlad believes Vigo to be one of his progeny, Vigo's actual father is the Gentleman Caller.[1]" from the wiki.

so it stands to reason that he is, in actuallality, 1/4 vistani, 1/4 human, and 1/2 fiend.

[The Dark]

THAT I remember! Not all Dukkar are GC's children and not all GC's children are Dukkar.
And I seem to recall that Azalin was seeking to catch the children of the GC, and that just Malocchio is a Dukkar. I could be wrong though

As far as I can tell there are only 2 Dukkar ever explicitly named in RL products, Malocchio and Hyskosa. My head cannon is that all of the GC's male children are probably Dukkar, but that is merely my take on things, and not supported explicitly by any printed products.

Four, although only three are during the TSR era - there's Vito Romenza in Death Ascendant and Trueblood in the 2008 novel Heaven's Bones (which I have not read).

Vito is a T4 whose Seeing abilities let him use a Tarokka deck or find the true owner of an object by suspending it on a piece of string and following where it points.

[Teravala]

THAT I remember! Not all Dukkar are GC's children and not all GC's children are Dukkar.
And I seem to recall that Azalin was seeking to catch the children of the GC, and that just Malocchio is a Dukkar. I could be wrong though

As far as I can tell there are only 2 Dukkar ever explicitly named in RL products, Malocchio and Hyskosa. My head cannon is that all of the GC's male children are probably Dukkar, but that is merely my take on things, and not supported explicitly by any printed products.

Four, although only three are during the TSR era - there's Vito Romenza in Death Ascendant and Trueblood in the 2008 novel Heaven's Bones (which I have not read).

Vito is a T4 whose Seeing abilities let him use a Tarokka deck or find the true owner of an object by suspending it on a piece of string and following where it points.

Yeah, I definitely was wrong when I said there were only 2, I do tend to drift to the TSR era since it is all in the edition I play, and for a lot of reasons I am hesitant to treat novel based lore as cannon. (love the novels, but my God do they take some liberties.)

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

So here’s a question.

Azalin wants/wanted to gather the Gentleman Caller’s children.

The ending of The Evil Eye means Malocchio is bound to Invidia and can’t leave the domain. We know that due to his Vistani heritage and fiendish blood he could teleport out of the Demiplane, and take someone with him. Ideal for Azalin.

But how would Azalin get to him? How would he break the curse? Is this just another doomed part of Azalin’s plan?