A question about curses

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

What do you think would be common curses in domains?
Like, not the magical sort. I mean insults and swear words etc.
I'm asking because
1) I think idiomatic speech is a good way to casually convey worldbuilding - a dozen things about a people's culture and history can be implied through one sentence - and curses are an important part of that cause they reflect what a culture considers either sacred or taboo.
2) I need (well, want) a grandma-rule-friendly way to show characters in my fanfics swearing.

In my first Ravenloft fics I had characters saying stuff like 'what in the dark powers is going on', but then I realised that those characters aren't supposed to know about the dark powers. The mists could still be featured, but they still feel more like what characterizes Ravenloft to us than what the locals would say after hitting a table's leg with their toe. (Like, I can imagine someone saying 'may the mists take you' as the equivalent of 'go to hell', but I don't think they'd use 'misted' like Rosharan characters use 'storming'.)

I was thinking about 'go to Forlorn' as a lighter equivalent of 'go to hell'.
I imagine 'caliban' would be used as a slur by some people, but good characters should consider it horrendously politically-incorrect and respond with something like 'Hey, some of my best friends are calibans!'
It would be funny to have adventurers pejoratively using incredibly niche and specific types of monsters the person they're offending has never even heard of ('You... You psionic vassalich!'
'Is that a word?').
I guess that with the prejudice against arcane magic, 'witch' would be a fairly common insult (domains like Tepest or Nova Vassa might go as far as considering the word 'magical' offensive).
Maybe with how much the Church of the Lawgiver is obsessed with order, Hazlani people consider the expression 'messed up' a serious curse rather than a tame alternative?

Keep it going.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

In general I would suggest not to use something that someone of your players may find offensive or even take insult to. "I don't mean it and it is strictly for in-game purposes", is never an excuse as they can still be hurtful.

I wouldn't use the term vassalich as this is a term used by scholars most people don't even know what a lich is, let players do what they do.

Witch or warlock is surely a curse someone would say for an arcane magician as would be sorceress I guess.

Caliban would be one too.

Don't forget that in some cultures they avoid mentioning names of evil creatures, they are taboo. As an example Voldermort in Harry Potter is referred to as "He Who Must Not Be Named" or "You-Know-Who" as if calling his name would summon him. The same applies to Satan or the Devil, where in Greek tradition one of the many names for that entity or mythological creature (whatever your belief is in this) is Εξαποδώ (Exa-podo)= which literally means "out of here " as in "get out of here".

In Darkon I would use "In Abysso putrescas" translating to "May you rot in the Abyss", as nowadays it is really easy to translate something in an existing real-world language reminiscent to a Ravenloft language.

Fie ca diavolul Strahd să te ia cu el, a common curse in Barovia "May the Devil Strahd take you". Even if they don't know his true nature he is still the most fearful person in the domain.

It can even apply to fantasy languages as elvish, for instance Sithican elves, who behave to humans as humans behave to demihumans in other domains, may say fírim taurë = human scum.

Lubitul Văduvei Negre = "Black Widow's lover". In Borca a curse to someone could be to have the attention of the Black Widow herself or her cousin, jocul gemenilor întunecați = dark twins' game.

Keep curses in each domain thematic and according to that domains culture.

Falkovnians for instance who have a cultural distaste to magic users may refer to them as Feiglingtrus = coward or Schbachling = weakling. I made these by combining the words in German and Russian such as the word Stangengrad. Stangen means "rods" or "bars" in German while grad (град) is an Old Slavic word meaning "city," "town," or "fortified settlement,"

In Luktar the language spoken by the Gundarakites the ancient word voishlacka = vampire (from Feast of Goblyns) may now be a slang for bloodsucker, used as a metaphorical curse to the Barovians who steal their livelihood.

You can get curses also from pop sources such as the Lucky Luke comics, "Le Pied-Tendre" in High Mordentish translates to "endefōt "=tenderfoot or "grenehorn "=greenhorn in Low Mordentish, used mostly in Verbrek though and changed to "endeloin "=tender loin by the werewolves of Verbrek.

In Tepest the swear for witches and warlocks are cailleach and draiódóir respectively

"Gudvruchcund" is a word literally meaning "godly" in Lamordian but used in a derogatory way to describe or accuse someone of believing to the gods. This is probably as far as most of the polite and publicly unemotional Lamordians will express themselves, except perhaps the Lamordian sailors.

Leannan an latha = "Dawn Lover" is a common curse in the Shadow Rift.

Hestelort is a word used often in Nova Vassa meaning "horseshit" while in Hazlan rasheman or rashemani (for women) is a racist and derogatory swear used among the Mulans against another Mulan.

Uoverensstemmende is another Vaasi curse word used in Kartakass meaning "discordant".

[SkiBird]

... "He Who Must Not Be Named" or "You-Know-Who" as if calling his name would summon him.

This is how the English word for bear came about.

It comes from a proto-Germanic root word that means 'the brown one.'

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

In general I would suggest not to use something that someone of your players may find offensive or even take insult to. "I don't mean it and it is strictly for in-game purposes", is never an excuse as they can still be hurtful.

Of course not. That's part of why I want to come up with fantasy replacement.

I wouldn't use the term vassalich as this is a term used by scholars most people don't even know what a lich is, let players do what they do.

That's the point, it's a joke about the monster-expert overestimating the knowledge of the person he's talking to even while trying to insult that person.

Don't forget that in some cultures they avoid mentioning names of evil creatures, they are taboo. As an example Voldermort in Harry Potter is referred to as "He Who Must Not Be Named" or "You-Know-Who" as if calling his name would summon him. The same applies to Satan or the Devil, where in Greek tradition one of the many names for that entity or mythological creature (whatever your belief is in this) is Εξαποδώ (Exa-podo)= which literally means "out of here " as in "get out of here".

Are you Greek? Is Mephisto a normal Greek name or just your FoS nickname? Sorry if it's a rude question, I'm just curious.

Falkovnians for instance who have a cultural distaste to magic users may refer to them as Feiglingtrus = coward or Schbachling = weakling. I made these by combining the words in German and Russian such as the word Stangengrad. Stangen means "rods" or "bars" in German while grad (град) is an Old Slavic word meaning "city," "town," or "fortified settlement,"

Impressive.

In Luktar the language spoken by the Gundarakites the ancient word voishlacka = vampire (from Feast of Goblyns) may now be a slang for bloodsucker, used as a metaphorical curse to the Barovians who steal their livelihood.

Makes sense.

You can get curses also from pop sources such as the Lucky Luke comics, "Le Pied-Tendre" in High Mordentish translates to "endefōt "=tenderfoot or "grenehorn "=greenhorn in Low Mordentish, used mostly in Verbrek though and changed to "endeloin "=tender loin by the werewolves of Verbrek.

Context, please?

"Gudvruchcund" is a word literally meaning "godly" in Lamordian but used in a derogatory way to describe or accuse someone of believing to the gods. This is probably as far as most of the polite and publicly unemotional Lamordians will express themselves, except perhaps the Lamordian sailors.

Uoverensstemmende is another Vaasi curse word used in Kartakass meaning "discordant".

I had a feeling they'd have a sound-related one...

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Are you Greek? Is Mephisto a normal Greek name or just your FoS nickname? Sorry if it's a rude question, I'm just curious.

Yes, in fact I am (Greek), but no Mephistopheles is not a normal Greek name, Greece is officially a secular state, but Article 3 of its Constitution establishes Eastern Orthodox Christianity as the "prevailing religion," influencing culture and law with most Greeks being very religious. Someone with a name like that would probably be burned at the stake by religious fundamentalists .
Surely a person with a name such as this in Greece would probably never finish school as he would be discriminated against by teachers, students and their parents alike. To name your child with a name like that in Greece would mean that you prefer to do your own thing disregarding the safety of your child, bad parenting.

Mephistopheles was not previously part of the traditional magical or demonological lore, but is a new coinage by a Rennaissance humanist drawing upon Greek and Latin. The name Mephistopheles was invented for the story of the historical alchemist Johann Georg Faust by the anonymous author of the first Faustbuch (published 1587) and is in fact a corrupted Greek compound. However, in the Faustbuch he was called Mephostophiles, the name Mephistopheles was coined and popularised by Goethe. The Greek particle of negation (μή, mē) and the Greek word for "deep friendship/brotherly love" aka "friend" (φίλος, philos) are the first and last terms of the compound, but the middle term is more doubtful.

Three possible meanings have been proposed, and three different etymologies have been offered:

a) "not loving light" or "not a friend of light" (φῶς, phōs; the old form of the name being Mephostopheles)

b) "not loving Faust" or "not a friend of Faust"

c) mephitic, foul-smelling or noxious, particularly of a gas or atmosphere pertaining to poisonous vapors arising from pools, caverns, and springs, from the Latin word mephīticus.

Mephistopheles' name was possibly taken from the Hebrew words "mephiz", or destroyer, and "tophel", or slander.

Shakespeare used the name in the form of Mephistophilus, using the latin version philus instead of the Greek philos.

In the play, Doctor Faustus (1604), created by Christopher Marlowe, Mephistopheles was written more as a fallen angel than as familiar demon. In the drama Faust, written in two parts by J.W. von Goethe, Mephistopheles appears as cold-hearted, humorous, and ironic.

You can get curses also from pop sources such as the Lucky Luke comics, "Le Pied-Tendre" in High Mordentish translates to "endefōt "=tenderfoot or "grenehorn "=greenhorn in Low Mordentish, used mostly in Verbrek though and changed to "endeloin "=tender loin by the werewolves of Verbrek.

Context, please?

"Le Pied-Tendre" or "The Tenderfoot" (in the English translation) is the forty-eighth story, first published in 1967, in the Lucky Luke series by Morris (art) and René Goscinny (script). It was first published as a standalone album in 1968. It takes its name from the term used in the American West for " tenderfoots" arriving from England , who were mocked and ridiculed for being presumed incapable of adapting to the harsh life of the Wild West.



My take of Arkandale, which I had written but the final version was lost when my computer disk fried some years ago, is a combination of Arkansas and a Gothic version of the Wild West. Fortunately an older version of it still existed in my e-mails so not everything is lost, but I haven't revisited it for years. It is mainly inspired by the following lines found here https://ravenloft-shadowfallen.obsidian ... /arkandale

Humans metaphorically prey on each other in Arkandale, turning civilization into a sham—a thin veneer on top of a “dog eat dog” world. Arkandale is the “proof” to the Cult of the Wolf God’s claims that humans are worse than animals; wolves don’t keep slaves, after all.

I have made many changes to this version of Arkandale though as the version detailed there has a lot in common with Souragne.

Fun fact
Arkendale was a settlement in the hundred of Burghshire and the county of Yorkshire, recorded in Domesday Book (Middle English spelling of "Doomsday Book") a manuscript record of the Great Survey of much of England and parts of Wales completed in 1086 at the behest of William the Conqueror. Now it is a village and civil parish by the same name in the county of North Yorkshire, England.
http://www.satiche.org.uk/arken/history.htm

Uoverensstemmende is another Vaasi curse word used in Kartakass meaning "discordant".

I had a feeling they'd have a sound-related one...

This is not official for Vaasi I often combine words in various Scandinavian languages (Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and sometimes icelandic), although for this I used the Danish word for discordant.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

Are you Greek? Is Mephisto a normal Greek name or just your FoS nickname? Sorry if it's a rude question, I'm just curious.

Yes, in fact I am (Greek), but no Mephistopheles is not a normal Greek name, Greece is officially a secular state, but Article 3 of its Constitution establishes Eastern Orthodox Christianity as the "prevailing religion," influencing culture and law with most Greeks being very religious. Someone with a name like that would probably be burned at the stake by religious fundamentalists .
Surely a person with a name such as this in Greece would probably never finish school as he would be discriminated against by teachers, students and their parents alike. To name your child with a name like that in Greece would mean that you prefer to do your own thing disregarding the safety of your child, bad parenting.

Mephistopheles was not previously part of the traditional magical or demonological lore, but is a new coinage by a Rennaissance humanist drawing upon Greek and Latin. The name Mephistopheles was invented for the story of the historical alchemist Johann Georg Faust by the anonymous author of the first Faustbuch (published 1587) and is in fact a corrupted Greek compound. However, in the Faustbuch he was called Mephostophiles, the name Mephistopheles was coined and popularised by Goethe. The Greek particle of negation (μή, mē) and the Greek word for "deep friendship/brotherly love" aka "friend" (φίλος, philos) are the first and last terms of the compound, but the middle term is more doubtful.

Three possible meanings have been proposed, and three different etymologies have been offered:

a) "not loving light" or "not a friend of light" (φῶς, phōs; the old form of the name being Mephostopheles)

b) "not loving Faust" or "not a friend of Faust"

c) mephitic, foul-smelling or noxious, particularly of a gas or atmosphere pertaining to poisonous vapors arising from pools, caverns, and springs, from the Latin word mephīticus.

Mephistopheles' name was possibly taken from the Hebrew words "mephiz", or destroyer, and "tophel", or slander.

Shakespeare used the name in the form of Mephistophilus, using the latin version philus instead of the Greek philos.

In the play, Doctor Faustus (1604), created by Christopher Marlowe, Mephistopheles was written more as a fallen angel than as familiar demon. In the drama Faust, written in two parts by J.W. von Goethe, Mephistopheles appears as cold-hearted, humorous, and ironic.

Wow.
Geeks who also read the classics are the GOAT.

(BTW, I'm a native Hebrew speaker with a relatively wide vocabulary and I've never heard or read the word 'mephiz'. Grammatically me[]i[] sounds like it *could* be a hebrew present-tense-verb/adjective, but as far as I know there's no such root as Ph.Z. with a relevant meaning. I'd translate 'destroyer' as 'mashmid' or 'makhriv'.
It could be an archaic word even I don't know - or maybe I don't identify it because of the transliteration - but it sounds unlikely. What source did you get that possible etymology from?)

[Mephisto of the FoS]

(BTW, I'm a native Hebrew speaker with a relatively wide vocabulary and I've never heard or read the word 'mephiz'. Grammatically me[]i[] sounds like it *could* be a hebrew present-tense-verb/adjective, but as far as I know there's no such root as Ph.Z. with a relevant meaning. I'd translate 'destroyer' as 'mashmid' or 'makhriv'.
It could be an archaic word even I don't know - or maybe I don't identify it because of the transliteration - but it sounds unlikely. What source did you get that possible etymology from?)

Goebel, Julius. The Etymology of Mephistopheles, Transactions and Proceedings of the American Philological Association, Vol. 35, Baltimore: The Johns Hopkins University Press, 1904, pp. 148-156
https://www.jstor.org/stable/282658?seq=2