Radical changes in Ravenloft in your campaign

[Isolde]

They will officially deny such a connection with the 1e MoP but its there.

[alhoon]

Who are they?
The Hickmans? I am not sure they were aware of this in MoP. The people turning Ravenloft to what it is... probably had someone aware of this.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Who are they?
The Hickmans? I am not sure they were aware of this in MoP. The people turning Ravenloft to what it is... probably had someone aware of this.

Manual of the Planes (1e) was written by Jeff Grubb in 1987, the vestiges of by gone evils (Dark Powers) mentioned in Curse of Strahd (5e) were probably inspired by this. The Black Box was published in 1990.

[brothersale]

Demiplane of Imprisonment may have inspired the 5e version of the dark powers (i will stick with 1st-3rd editions versions personally, where they are not explained and are nebulous in purpose and intent and not dregs of evil dead gods), however it is listed as a seperate demiplane in its next appearance in A Guide to the Ethereal Plane. it also does not release those that become trapped in, unless a wish or miracle is cast from someone outside the demiplane, and even then those that are pulled out are insane. So it does differ from the Demiplane of Dread quite a bit in that regard.

[alhoon]

I was very disappointed that a fine adventure like CoS, which by some of my non-Ravenloft playing friends is considered one of the best of 5e era, defines the Dark Powers and sticks them in a temple.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

I was very disappointed that a fine adventure like CoS, which by some of my non-Ravenloft playing friends is considered one of the best of 5e era, defines the Dark Powers and sticks them in a temple.

Yes that is a downer, but you can always skip that part, you can use the Amber Temple (or something with an entirely different name) as Stahd's hideout the one that his contigency spell sends him, the "hidden cave in the Balinoks" mentioned in House of Strahd. The Amber Temple is too Har'Akir in my opinion, since Barovia is based on Transylvania I would make the Amber Temple be based on Dacian culture.

[alhoon]

That is a very nice suggestion

[Teravala]

I think that the Dark Powers work best as described in the earlier materials. Nebulous, undefined shadow powers that defy explanation or a rigid, defined set of powers, motives, and origin.

[Chaotic Blues]

Agreed, When I ran CoS in Pathfinder, I made the beings in the Amber Temple corruptive influences. Only by corrupting mortals could the find escape from their prisons.

Unlike the Dark powers, who watch for evil. The entities in the Amber Temple were active influencers.

A second change was I used the complete Barovia map. My players must have gone around Barrovia at least three times. The first time was having the party find Ireena with 'Ismark' (Actually Strahad in disguise).

Fun times.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:

Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.

[Teravala]

Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:

Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.

I think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.

[Speedwagon]

Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:

Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.

I think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.

Personally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).

[Teravala]

Another change I would do to CoS would be the appearance of Mordenkainen. I don't see the point in placing Mordenkainen in Ravenloft since he would be unable to leave the Demiplane of Dread. I would rather use Burganet from the TSR Collector Cards. He is an 11th level Abjurer but what is interesting is his background info:

Burganet began as an evil wizard who plotted to sever a piece of Barovia and establish his own domain. While Strahd Von Zarovich was impressed with the mage's ambition, he remained obliged to drive Burganet completely insane. A blithering idiot for five years, his alignment shifted through the ministrations of a young woman.

I think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.

Personally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).

Not to be contrary, but Chris Perkins stated that Vecna was present, though not explicitly named in CoS, most likely as the unnamed God of Secrets in the Amber Temple. Granted, there is an 8 year gap between CoS and the Vecna adventure, (released in May of 2024) but that really isn't that long when you consider they were likely already storyboarding and planning their product timeline. There is definitely merit to the idea that they were trying to capitalize somewhat on stranger things and on CR, but I feel strongly that when they were developing CoS, they already had Vecna: Eve of Ruin in their sights, even if it wasn't fully fleshed out yet. This especially makes sense as vecna was a dark lord before he was a God, and had already appeared in the Ravenloft product lines once before, and CoS was one of the earliest 5e products. Seems like purposeful seeding to me, easily overlooked by the casual observer, but with dots to be connected if you do some digging, and much easier to see in hindsight.

[Speedwagon]

I think they included Mordenkainen because of their "romp through the planes" Vecna based adventure they had in the works when CoS released.

Personally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).

Not to be contrary, but Chris Perkins stated that Vecna was present, though not explicitly named in CoS, most likely as the unnamed God of Secrets in the Amber Temple. Granted, there is an 8 year gap between CoS and the Vecna adventure, (released in May of 2024) but that really isn't that long when you consider they were likely already storyboarding and planning their product timeline. There is definitely merit to the idea that they were trying to capitalize somewhat on stranger things and on CR, but I feel strongly that when they were developing CoS, they already had Vecna: Eve of Ruin in their sights, even if it wasn't fully fleshed out yet. This especially makes sense as vecna was a dark lord before he was a God, and had already appeared in the Ravenloft product lines once before, and CoS was one of the earliest 5e products. Seems like purposeful seeding to me, easily overlooked by the casual observer, but with dots to be connected if you do some digging, and much easier to see in hindsight.

Yeah that makes sense! I suppose I'm just disappointed with how Vecna: Eve of Ruin came out, even if it was in the works for so long. CoS, even with its deviations to 2e/3e canon, is a pretty solid adventure that I've loved to run & play, so it's a shame to see the adventure quality fall-off so much.

[Teravala]

Personally I doubt that, if only because the Vecna adventure is 2025 and CoS was 2016. I think it's more likely that Mordenkainen was there because he's a well-known D&D wizard (so it hypes up Strahd) and his own book would be coming out in 2018 (Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes). The Vecna stuff seems to have been planned & teased around 2023, and even then it was capitalizing on Stranger Things giving the brand even more popularity (and after Critical Role's first campaign had Vecna as the final boss).

Not to be contrary, but Chris Perkins stated that Vecna was present, though not explicitly named in CoS, most likely as the unnamed God of Secrets in the Amber Temple. Granted, there is an 8 year gap between CoS and the Vecna adventure, (released in May of 2024) but that really isn't that long when you consider they were likely already storyboarding and planning their product timeline. There is definitely merit to the idea that they were trying to capitalize somewhat on stranger things and on CR, but I feel strongly that when they were developing CoS, they already had Vecna: Eve of Ruin in their sights, even if it wasn't fully fleshed out yet. This especially makes sense as vecna was a dark lord before he was a God, and had already appeared in the Ravenloft product lines once before, and CoS was one of the earliest 5e products. Seems like purposeful seeding to me, easily overlooked by the casual observer, but with dots to be connected if you do some digging, and much easier to see in hindsight.

Yeah that makes sense! I suppose I'm just disappointed with how Vecna: Eve of Ruin came out, even if it was in the works for so long. CoS, even with its deviations to 2e/3e canon, is a pretty solid adventure that I've loved to run & play, so it's a shame to see the adventure quality fall-off so much.

I completely understand that sentiment. I don't really play much 5e, because for all it's merits, it feels weirdly corporate and streamlined too much. I feel like it's adventures ignore decades of real world lore and books, and the accessibility en masse isn't a worthwhile trade off for me. But I have a suspicion this was how 1e players felt about 2e, and 2e about 3e, and so on.