First debate of 2025 - AI image or not ?

[Isolde]

AI (these pseudo-AI that exist now) is already replacing human activity and harming humans when it should just be a supportive element. We will end up in some Dune AI or Warhammer 40k AI or some other dystopic situation.

When real AI emerges, with full capacities, then it will be a titanic problem unless we turn it into an Olympian problem solver before it goes titan mode. And its not going to be the Titan Prometheus.

[Isolde]

Prometheus gave humans fire, let us assume this is the intellect, but this AI the place its headed is an anti-Promethean force.

[Pinge]

I will post more on the subject in the coming days, but for now, I will offer my point of view as someone who creates art and who at the same time participates in a project that uses AI art.

As some know, I'm part of the Black Feather, a team of Brazilian fans dedicated to creating RL material for the DMs Guild.

Initially, I would be responsible for creating all the art for the books, which is what I do in my side projects (my system and books for other settings that I publish on the DMs Guild).

In the end, the rest of the team opted to use AI in most of the art in the books (sometimes I do some smaller art, like crests, symbols, maps, etc.), as the general consensus was that art created by AI could better convey the atmosphere of RL in the books.

This decision was made both because of the artistic style (which didn't offend me) and because of the issue of time X quantity of images. And in that sense I even found it understandable.

On the other hand, both I and the other team members understand the entire ethical issue surrounding AI-generated art.

We also respect and understand when someone decides not to buy our books because of our use of AI.

Something we always do is work on the arts in order to make changes instead of using the arts the way they were generated. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that they are AI images...

On the other hand, and I'm going to play devil's advocate here (since this is ultimately my profession), when it comes to RPG books, the focus of the product is the text, the creativity, the ideas presented. The art ends up being an extra, an aesthetic detail, but not the main reason (or often not even the secondary) why someone buys an RPG book.

I understand that it would be something completely different if someone tried to sell an art book, made by AI, or an RPG book with text made by AI... because then the focus of the work would not be the author's work.

Currently, even in programs like Photoshop it is possible to create art using AI quickly and simply, so I believe that the issue of AI ends up becoming a discussion similar to that of piracy.

It exists, many use it, for a variety of reasons, and it is something considered unethical. But in the end, is tangible harm being caused (apart from copyright infringement, of course)?

And this last question, I say as someone who has had countless books pirated, and in the end, it didn't end up resulting in any losses, because whoever pirated them wouldn't buy them anyway...

And, in the end, some people who ended up downloading the pirated version and liked it, ended up buying and/or recommending the material.

Well, that's what I wanted to bring to the discussion at the moment. It's 5:00 AM here, and I need to get into my coffin before the sun comes up.

I hope I have contributed in some positive way to the discussion, and to those who, in some way, do not agree with my views, I make it clear that I understand and respect the opinion of those who are against the use of AI generated art in certain circumstances.

Happy New Year everyone!

I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your perspective, especially coming from someone who creates art and participates in AI-based projects. It's refreshing to see such an open-minded approach to the ethics and practicalities of AI-generated art.

I completely understand the choice to use AI for the artwork in your RPG books. When it comes to projects like these, the text and creative concepts are often the driving force behind the product, and the art, while important, can sometimes be more of an aesthetic touch rather than the primary focus. In this context, the use of AI can be a very practical solution, especially when balancing time constraints and the volume of images needed.

It’s also clear that you and your team are thoughtful about the ethical implications, and I think it’s great that you respect when others may have issues with AI-generated art. This transparency and willingness to engage in the conversation is important, especially as AI in creative fields continues to evolve.

The analogy to piracy is an interesting one, too. While piracy, especially in the context of digital media, certainly raises ethical concerns, it’s true that it doesn’t always result in tangible harm, as you’ve pointed out. Some people who might pirate material would not have purchased it otherwise, and in some cases, it can even lead to more exposure and eventual sales.

I do think we’re in a bit of a gray area right now when it comes to AI-generated art, and the conversation around its ethical use is still unfolding. It's great to see creators like you navigating this space thoughtfully, and I’m sure your approach will resonate with many in the community.

I hope the discussion continues to stay respectful and open, as it's clear there's a lot of nuance to explore here. Looking forward to hearing more as you post more on the subject, and thanks for contributing to the discussion!

[alhoon]

Here is something that was on my facebook page:

Name: Krieg "The Iron Revenant"
Epithet: "The Unburied"
Race: Dhampir (Half-Vampire, Van Richten’s Guide to the Created)
Class/Level: Fighter 3 (Blackguard Kit, Complete Fighter’s Handbook)
Alignment: Lawful Evil (Bound by a Dark Oath)
Homeland: Falkovnia (Deserter from Drakov’s Legion)
Notable Relations:
Vladeska Drakov (Former commander, wants him dead)
The Pale Sisters (Vampiric coven that "saved" him)
Core Stats (3d6 in order, AD&D 2E Style)
STR: 17 (+1) – "The grave could not hold me. Neither will you."
DEX: 14 (0) – "I move like a shadow with a blade’s edge."
CON: 16 (+2) – "My heart beats once per hour... a curse, not a weakness."
INT: 9 (0) – "War needs no philosophy."
WIS: 12 (0) – "The night whispers warnings only I hear."
CHA: 7 (-1) – "My smile shows too many teeth."
Racial/Class Traits:
• Dhampir Resilience – +2 vs. disease, can Regenerate 1 HP/hour (but must drink blood weekly).
• Blackguard’s Brutality – +1 to hit/damage when fighting for evil masters (VF p.112).
Combat Data
AC: 3 (Banded Mail + DEX, rusted and etched with infernal runes)
HP: 28 (3d10 + CON)
THAC0: 18 (16 with Hell’s Halberd)
Weapons:
Hell’s Halberd (+1 vs. good-aligned, screams when drawn) – "It sings of the Abyss as it cleaves."
Throwing Daggers x3 (1d4, coated in deadman’s blood)
Special Abilities:
• Unholy Stamina – Once per day, ignore mortal wounds for 1d4 rounds (collapse afterward).
• Blood Drinker – On crit, regain 1d4 HP (reveals fangs, risks frenzy).
Equipment
Signature Item: Executioner’s Hood (Stitched shut where his vampiric sire kissed his neck).
Plot Token: A Falkovnian deserter’s brand (Glows when Drakov’s hunters are near).
Currency: 20 gp, 5 silvered bullets (useless to him, but torments lycanthropes).
Non-Weapon Proficiencies (NWPs):
Intimidation (CHA) – "I need not raise my voice. The stench of death speaks for me."
Torture (INT) – "Pain is a language. I am fluent."
Background: [Death’s Conscript]
A Falkovnian soldier left for dead after refusing an order to massacre civilians, "saved" by a vampire’s kiss—now hunted by both man and monster.
Three Truths:
Quirk: Tugs at his hood when lying (his sire’s kiss burns when he deceives).
RP Hook: Secretly feeds on bandits to avoid harming innocents.
Secret: His halberd contains the soul of his dead lieutenant.
Hook:
"I died at the Battle of Lekar. The thing wearing my skin is... something else."


I found it on a page that I follow: Dungeons and AI. For more info and a picture, if interested look for
"Thomas L. Harfst Jr. " and it was made 18 April. I don't want to post a link here for a FB page (It is Dungeons and AI, I believe google can help you)

[tomokaicho]

Artists are one part of the AI automation story, but not the entire story. Entire sectors are about to be eliminated by AI, such as human call centres, and most human translators. Are these people not worthy? The answer is that they are worthy, and they are going to be replaced anyway. I'm multilingual myself, and translation was always potential fallback for me if I really needed work. That's gone now, along with diluting the benefits of years of study, raising the opportunity costs for my choices.

The people that benefit from AI art most will not be non artists, but artists that use AI within their workflow. Hybrid art is already very common, where labor has been mixed with AI processes in the workflow. Someone else mentioned it here, but good AI art isn't just a single prompt.

[Isolde]

At this point AIs tell lies, make mistakes, complete things with fictitious additions they generate themselves and are quite unreliable a little or a lot depending on your topic. They do not even tell you about it from before or after they did the work.

I tried generating an image, a mauled and maimed mind flayer with great detail and the AI generated a slightly battered one without warning me about the changes and why it ignored my instructions. Then after asking several questions and making attempts regarding this i got various responses. This is like talking to a human data bank "clerk" body-less android that is sort of a jerk, though can be useful at times and may have multiple personality disorder, and has many human flaws.

I used 2 on some legal issues, real life. They made certain errors that are inexcusable and could not extricate themselves from the error loop nor would they answer with precision and could not be corrected. Their logic capacity sort of broke.

I used them about D&D stuff, asking some opinion on difficulty or monster locations in books etc and what it did not know it invented without telling me. Non-existent monsters, non-existent books, wrong and non-existent citations and page numbers. It gets some things right but its not to be trusted even as an indexer-searcher. Its not even a reliable book appendix yet.

[alhoon]

New ChatGPT, new stories! ChatGPT 5

Prompt: Write for me a short gothic horror story, based on Ravenloft campaign setting, within 200 to 300 words. Do not use a darklord. Do not give a generic gothic setting, but one that feels like Ravenloft.


================================

The hamlet of Greven’s Hollow sat at the edge of the Mists, its farthest field bounded by a weathered milestone carved with runes no one alive could read. Those who wandered past it never returned, though their cries sometimes floated back through the fog.

When the Hollow’s well ran dry, the council sent Marrek, the youngest and least missed, to seek the old spring beyond the milestone. He tied a rope about his waist, the other end gripped by five villagers.

The Mists swallowed him after twenty paces. The rope quivered—then slackened. When they pulled it back, Marrek stood at the far end, dripping wet. His skin was ice-cold, his eyes unfocused. He said the spring flowed again, but would speak no more.

That night, water gushed from the well—sweet, clear… and faintly warm. The villagers drank deep, relieved. Only the old midwife spat hers out, muttering of blood gone thin.

Within a week, their reflections no longer matched their movements. A month later, no child in Greven’s Hollow could be found, though parents still heard them playing in empty rooms.

Marrek still walks the village, smiling faintly, his shadow cast in the wrong direction. And when the Mists curl close, you can hear the rope dragging behind him.

[doctornecrotic]

I'm supportive of AI being used in practical situations, especially medical. That or means of streamlining labor without speed-running people out of employment. Yes, it will happen eventually. That said, I'm tired of it in art. It carries pretty obvious aesthetics that feel just soulless and bland, it feels like a peak corporate remake of other works. Such art feels like pollution to me, it's part of why I do a lot less with another fan zine, as the slop has been increasing.

[Isolde]

That said, I'm tired of it in art.... It carries unique aesthetics that feel just soulless and bland, it feels like a peak corporate remake of other works. Such art feels like pollution to me

i agree wholeheartedly.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

That said, I'm tired of it in art.... It carries unique aesthetics that feel just soulless and bland, it feels like a peak corporate remake of other works. Such art feels like pollution to me

i agree wholeheartedly.

Thirded.

[alhoon]

it feels like a peak corporate remake of other works.

Well, it kinda is.

[moonglum]

I try my best not to engage with AI in any forms and won’t knowingly pay for anything in which it was used. I’m one who believes we are at a juncture with technology in which one needs to draw a line in the sand or soon be blindsided by the consequences much as we were with social media and smart phones. The pros did not outweigh the cons there, particularly when it comes to the physical and mental health of humans and the health of the planet. AI, AR, VR, Automation etc. are that next epoch (which is really a linear line, most recently extending from smart phones and social media) and I’ve chosen to stop adopting new technologies moving forward. I’ll assess each new one as it arrives but I imagine my opinion will be to abstain. I’m instead putting my time and energy into my analog hobbies and spending more time outside and staying active.