Van Richten's Guide vs. Canon - Project Idea?

[onmyoji]

So I had a quick thought. I've only been into Ravenloft some three years now, and I've really only gotten to look at domains and materials that are directly related to the campaigns I'm working on.

Since it's pretty clear the VR Guide will oppose established canon in several places, I was wondering if it might not be a bad idea for FoS members to sort of create a document that points to things that were changed in the new guide (once it comes out, of course) and also how they "used to be." I'm not imagining anything too crazy. It could be as simple as a two-column table, with one column being "VR's Guide says..." and the other being "But the canon was..." and the table can split for each domain, for easy accessibility.

For people like me who are still new and have never been to say, Dementlieu, or Borca, or Richemulot, this could become a fantastic resource to bridge the old material and the new for those who are just finding out about Ravenloft via 5E, as I did. Unfortunately, I don't know the lore of very much outside of Barovia, so I can't quite contribute heavily to something like this, but I thought I'd check and see if anyone else might be interested in putting a project like this together.

Worth considering?

— onmyoji

[Zilfer]

^The Wiki is probably going to be the best place to showcase this. Not sure if we have a 3e Canon Tag, and can now make a 5e Canon Tag.

@Gonzoron (i forget if this actually tags them.) is probably the most well versed in editing the wiki and has put in a lot of work. There are some others as well who silently plug away as well that I really appreciate putting in the work. This strikes me as something they'd be able to start doing. I know most sources are already listed for each article.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Yeah, like Zilfer said (and no, @ing doesn't work here, youngster! ). The wiki's probably the best place for that. We have category tags for edition, but haven't distinguished editions in the "Levels of Canon" tags. Previously, there wasn't enough difference in canon between editions to bother. Now, there clearly will be, so it may pay to add tags for them.

Each domain's page would then have sections for the different editions, clearly labelled, ideally, in much the same way that, for example, The FoS page has canon and netbook canon sections.

Like it or not, onmyoji, VRGtR will be just as canon as the prior canon books were, as long as it's got the WotC logo on the back. It's a new and different canon, yes, but 5e canon vs 3e canon would be the more accurate way to label the conflicts.

[Zilfer]

And we can use that light blue text to have that delicious OOC commentary I see on some pages suggesting possibilities as to why things might be. (some of them I remember finding humorous. Not sure who does those.)

I'm sure we'll also see some blending topics here between old and new canon.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

And we can use that light blue text to have that delicious OOC commentary I see on some pages suggesting possibilities as to why things might be. (some of them I remember finding humorous. Not sure who does those.)

Anyone can do that with the {{Spec|"blah blah blah}} syntax.

[Jester of the FoS]

We could also do an entry for Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft on Mistipedia that lists the changes and deviations.

[onmyoji]

Like it or not, onmyoji, VRGtR will be just as canon as the prior canon books were, as long as it's got the WotC logo on the back. It's a new and different canon, yes, but 5e canon vs 3e canon would be the more accurate way to label the conflicts.

My apologies. I should've said "previous canon." To be clear, I didn't mean to infer in any way that what's in the VR Guide won't be canon.

Though like Jester suggested, I still think it's good to have a one-stop-place to go for things that were changed in the new guide. Under the VR Guide's page in Mistipedia is fine by me. Just being able to view them in one place, sorted by domain, seems like a very worthwhile idea.

— onmyoji

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Though like Jester suggested, I still think it's good to have a one-stop-place to go for things that were changed in the new guide. Under the VR Guide's page in Mistipedia is fine by me. Just being able to view them in one place, sorted by domain, seems like a very worthwhile idea.

Agreed!

[Leliel]

I agree with all that.

Hell, I'm going to merge the timelines, say whatever Azalin did that untethered him from Darkon is what broke the Core apart, at which point several of the new darklords (then just resentful underlings) made their move in the confusion, usurping control.

Because given some things Forbes just revealed about Saidra d'Honaire and her version of Dementlieu? She's perfect for someone who was able to get one over on Dominic. She's a crafty social climber who runs a weekly ball where she quietly organizes the social scene around her, and she invokes Dark City as part of her inspiration. It isn't even that hard without her backstory:

* Saidra comes to Dominic's attention, and she wins his affections, immunizing her to his mesmerization.

* She figures it out, and lets him think he's won her heart so as to access the levers of power.

* Azalin vanishes, Core shatters, Saidra takes the opportunity to stab Domenic in the back and assumes power "temporarily" while revealing how corrupted the Council of Brilliance was - allowing her to install some patsies who are genuinely loyal to her without brainwashing.

* People come to love her image, she is given the title of Duchess by popular vote, becomes darklord in truth - and Dementlieu's supernature becomes far more blatant as it changes to fit her rather than the other way around, since she's a different kind of schemer; she wants you to know who she is, but love her for it.

* (Optional) Part of her curse is to always remember that she only achieved this position through treachery and lying about herself - so through the Dark Powers' dubious miracle, Dominic was revived with some of his powers intact, and is now her personal version of the Living Brain as an archrival. She'll never be certain of her reign.

[Baron Von Stanton]

* (Optional) Part of her curse is to always remember that she only achieved this position through treachery and lying about herself - so through the Dark Powers' dubious miracle, Dominic was revived with some of his powers intact, and is now her personal version of the Living Brain as an archrival. She'll never be certain of her reign.

Is Dominic revived, or is he a figment of Saidra's maliciously overactive imagination, given life by both the Dark Powers and her paranoia? If not, is he truly alive again? Or a ghost? Or maybe some part of him and or his personality living on vicariously, precariously through the mental programming left behind inside of the minds of his former Obedients?

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

Or maybe some part of him and or his personality living on vicariously, precariously through the mental programming left behind inside of the minds of his former Obedients?

Ooh, like the mind seed psionic power.

[alhoon]

Do we know if the changes to the canon would be ... changes and not just "progress by 10 years" or things that can easily be explained?

I.e. from what I heard, there's no core anymore. But... is that "there's no core" or it's more like "we discuss each domain without mentioning whether they border other domains and which" ?

I have heard that Falkovnia changed. Do we know if it changed as in "it was always X and not Drakov's Stalinohitler authoritarianism?" or "and after 5 years of civil war following Drakov's death at the hands of adventurers, Falkovnia is now X" ?

[Igor the Henchman]

I have heard that Falkovnia changed. Do we know if it changed as in "it was always X and not Drakov's Stalinohitler authoritarianism?" or "and after 5 years of civil war following Drakov's death at the hands of adventurers, Falkovnia is now X" ?

It's the former.

[onmyoji]

It's the former.

That's the reason I suggested this. If the changes were all something we could interpret as simply having occurred with the passage of time (Van Richten somehow somehow avoiding dying on schedule to release this book), then that would be one thing. But I get the feeling there are going to be enough substantial changes and alterations to merit a sort of "conversion guide" for those who might be interested.

That way, those who only have the 5E lore to fall back on have a convenient means of comparing both versions of the lore and can find which version suits them best—especially since there's a substantial amount of books to sort through if you're only familiar with Ravenloft as it appears in 5E. Speaking of which, footnoting the non-5E material (as often done on Mistipedia) is a must for this. People who are unsure about whether or not to get the VR Guide can also use this as a rubric for buying, but I'm primarily interested in proposing this as a means to reach out to newbies who may only know 5E and helping connect them to the older lore.

— onmyoji