Ravenloft is back in 5e?

[Five]

While a homophobic Van Richten is certainly one way to spin things, I personally think the existing fact that he's flat-out racist for most of his career, until his change of heart in VRGttV is enough to "darken" his character without adding another flaw.

This is Ravenloft, with Van Richten being the setting's paragon. "Dark" isn't enough to contrast and showcase the Good versus Evil, those cellar steps should be going down to "deeply flawed" (plus it further divides him a little bit more from Van Helsing). His climb out becomes that much more, and on multiple levels. All are affected in Ravenloft yet some can, amazingly, rise above (cue Black Flag heh). Players who fail the Powers Check will now know, or think they know, what it takes to redeem themselves (both in and out of character) if Van Richten becomes, stays, the benchmark for both good and redemption. In fact, in all of the editions, has any character ever been so offered as an example (of redemption)? I honestly can't remember seeing one.

All that aside, I think I get what you're saying. Piling on too much is just that. It can, potentially, water down each separate flaw (theme, etc) if care isn't taken to keep each tagged...

[tomokaicho]

Also, if I may dip into pedant mode for a minute, Metus is bisexual, not strictly homosexual. It was his love for a vistani woman, Andrianna, which led him to Ravenloft.

Say what? I don't remember this.

Whether or not this retcon added in Bleak House was motivated by an attempt to desexualize his interest in Erasmus to make it more palatable for the contemporary audience is something we'll probably never know. But, for as much as canon matters anymore, it's there.

Oh. Bleak House retcon. With Baron Metus, less is more. I prefer that the Baron retain his homosexuality. As for canon, who knows what will be done to Baron Metus now.

[DocBeard]

Van Richten opposing a legitimate romance between Ermasus and Metius totally throws off the cadance of van Richten's origin. I dunno if he even needs Metius, but he needs a lost child to drag him from his comfortable life into the world of monster hunting. That seems exactly the kind of revisionism I don't want to see in these books; if I wanted a WOD like experience I'd just play WOD, you know?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Van Richten opposing a legitimate romance between Ermasus and Metius totally throws off the cadance of van Richten's origin.

"Legitimate" would be a sticky point here in any case. Regardless of the genders involved, Erasmus was 14. Yes, there's the idea that Ravenloft and all of D&D represents a time period when people married younger and were considered adults, etc. But there's also the slippery slope into homosexual=pedophile, ephebophile, whatever. Point is, Metus's interest in Erasmus, as written, was not legitimate in any way, vampire or not, genders reversed or not, "consensual" or not. (in quotes because a 14-year old can't really consent). That's of course, assuming, as we always have, that it was sexual or romantic in nature. The term "vampire bride/groom" is loaded with that interpretation, but there's nothing stopping someone from using that process on a platonic friend. Still kind of hard to believe an adult wants their 14-year-old "platonic friend" around for eternity without a creepy/pervy component, though. I don't see any real way to legitimize the relationship without aging Erasmus up, or Metus down, substantially.

[Five]

Van Richten opposing a legitimate romance between Ermasus and Metius totally throws off the cadance of van Richten's origin. I dunno if he even needs Metius, but he needs a lost child to drag him from his comfortable life into the world of monster hunting. That seems exactly the kind of revisionism I don't want to see in these books; if I wanted a WOD like experience I'd just play WOD, you know?

Putting two into one...

What if there was nothing legitimate about any of Erasmus' "romances"? Poor bastard...

The Vistani "lover" I threw out there was a front for sex trade; the Eramus-Metus relationship was that of sex slave-owner. Erasmus was victimised through his sexuality. Van Richten hated his son because of it, because he couldn't see him as an individual, outside of his own fatherly "grooming" (preconceived expectations) of him (and which would later fuel his rage against the baron because in the vampire's actions he can see his own) Hatred for the Vistani may have started off through his bias against his son's homosexuality, but the explosion of violence at finding out the Vistani tribe's true plan and "business particulars" was the seeds to his later racism against them. "You're all the same, you (string of DM's choice)." If it weren't for his tragic loss of Erasmus, and the Old Yeller moment of giving his soul final rest, then no doubt Van Richten's homophobia would've been carried for years, if not his entire life. The hinted at Alanik might've had a few heated exchanges with him, to the point of possibly opening his mind, but at the same time it's also probable that such a debate forces each to stay "true", and their relationship becomes that of professional correspondence only. But that's a big what if, and a lot less heroic.

By accepting his son as a "sum of all parts", and in thinking, dwelling, on the events that led up to Erasmus' last night (the despicable part he played in it, and for such petty and selfish, irrational, reasons), he turns the page on that particular bias. Not overnight of course, but over time. If only he had been more open-minded and accepting...!

Anyway, just some alt thoughts.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Oh. Bleak House retcon. With Baron Metus, less is more. I prefer that the Baron retain his homosexuality.

Since I took the implication he was bisexual and ran with it, creating a female vorlog of Metus's for one of the major villains of my campaign, I'm happy the reference was there. Without it, my campaign would have looked very different. Not sure what actual bisexuals would think of it, whether it counts as representation, or just another instance of the "Evil Bisexual" trope. If anything comes of this talk of LGBTQ stuff in the new book, I hope there are at least a few examples of LGBTQ good guys. So far we've got "Alanik Ray and Sedgewick maaaaaaaybe" as the closest Ravenloft gets to a non-zero number.

[Five]

Still kind of hard to believe an adult wants their 14-year-old "platonic friend" around for eternity without a creepy/pervy component, though

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA

Hey man, I couldn't resist. I tried. Really, I did! Haha

Kinda Ravenlofty though...

[Mephisto of the FoS]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sOnqjkJTMaA

Hey man, I couldn't resist. I tried. Really, I did! Haha

Kinda Ravenlofty though...

He looks more creepy before constipation kicks in and is turned into a monster...

PS: MJ in Falkovnia

[Mephisto of the FoS]

When I referred to alignment for RVR being Lawful Good it was more on the argument of him being a loving and accepting father. Alignment is a game mechanic anyway reality is more complex, so all that has been written about fleshing out the character is good. Now I agree that he could be homophobic as he was racist against the Vistani, a thing that always slips my attention since I always believe his reconciliation with Arturi Radanavich to be his greatest triumph, that of forgiveness and personal salvation. After all that he has achieved and endured, Bleak House makes everything more dramatic.
I am leaning more that he is not homophobic and to the possibility of Erasmus being sexually assaulted by Metus, a deviant vampire, in Oliver Clegg's Darkon Gazetteer (Jagged Coast) he is described as "An ancient vampire of legendary sadism and evil" so t could be more than just Erasmus being sexually assaulted.
And a note, I would personally skip that Vlad Tepes outfit.

[Jester of the FoS]

Well, the gender of vampires is technically "vampire." They're not typically male or female in the traditional sense.

When I wrote my Children of the Night book and included a line on Eramus and vampire brides, I mused on van Richten's response to a gay son. And decided it would be easier to have him just be racist rather than racist and homophobic, explicitly saying he accepted his son. Instead casting his dislike of Baron Metus as the result of the predatory age difference and nonconsensual turning of Eramus into a vampire.
Because van Richten is generally meant to be a generally decent and good person.

[onmyoji]

Imagine if you didn't have to, meaning if WotC actually did a reboot. It could be focused on the Apparatus, having information as an accessory or even adventures similar to Candlekeep Mysteries.

"The Apparatus a collection of seventeen short, stand-alone D&D adventures designed for characters of levels 1-16."

It could begin in Prime Material Mordent similar to House on Gryphon Hill, having also some adventures involving Azalin's and Strahd's experiments on the Demiplanes planar fabric perhaps. Since they don't remember anything about that time so it would be virgin territory (that doesn't mean that there should be more displacer beast's though).

Then it could be used as a backstory adventure of how Vikta Mordenheim became darklord, using the apparatus to Adam and (the ants)... sorry bad joke I meant Mordenheim.

It could also be used in an adventure with Malken, maybe The Mudman of Bergovitsa who is an alchemist finds the diary of the original Alchemist and tries to save his mentor (or whatever Sir T. is to him)

There could be an adventure about the Rod of Houtras and the Brotherhood of Contemplative Power in Barovia.

Then there could be another adventure about the Rod of Rastinon maybe including the Thaani and the Ildi'Thaan.

Naturally a variation of the adventure Thought's of Darkness and the creation of Vampire Illithids (mentioned in reviews on VRGtR) would be really welcomed as this adventure was a mess too, without any horror except the all to powerful D&D monsters appearing (especially the drow, I believe there shouldn't be drow elves there).

Adventures about specific characters as Bonespur, Lyssa Von Zarovich, Rasputin Khrinitov and the Living Brain (his fairytale version at least ).

Rules for Psionics and psionic "magical items"in Ravenloft like Bonespur's psionic shapeshifting knife or his spellturning ring leading to an introduction to Loie Hunn could also be welcomed.

This could be a product introducing DM's and players alike into a more Lovecraftian type of horror as it was planned to be done in the last Gazetteer.

If anyone from the Ravenloft designer's or WotC development team reads this, I hope it was enough to brainstorm you into creating a product like that.

If I didn't have to, that would be great. But let's be real. Nothing like this is probably coming down the pipeline, even though that would probably be a much better way to bring Ravenloft back to life as a setting. I know I'm probably going to cut some of the more extraneous things from I10 (one of them being Azalin, who is just kind of... there), but I did find a way to tie it into the larger story I want to tell also, so I feel good about that much at least.

— onmyoji

[Five]

Well, the gender of vampires is technically "vampire." They're not typically male or female in the traditional sense.

"Vampire" is traditionally a transformative species (for lack of a better term), not gender, and depending on whether or not an author or reader (or gamer) is framing their vampire with a particular real world cultural variant (which may or may not be rooted to something a bit more or less than a vampire as we know it) there may or may not be a masculine and feminine difference.

Of course, the only true answer lies within the imagination, and how far you want to push what you want to push...

Just thought I'd caveat what I read as a statement of fact.

And that's why I'm really digging the new take in dhampirs. Their origins options allows just about all perspectives to bring them to the table. From an imagination and therefore game point of view it's nothing short of brilliant. The conversation that always seemed to trail them, the ability of their vampire parent to create life, always did annoy me in that "jesus sigh" kinda way. Now the conversation doesn't have to happen. Heh

[Five]

I am leaning more that he is not homophobic and to the possibility of Erasmus being sexually assaulted by Metus, a deviant vampire, in Oliver Clegg's Darkon Gazetteer (Jagged Coast) he is described as "An ancient vampire of legendary sadism and evil" so t could be more than just Erasmus being sexually assaulted.
And a note, I would personally skip that Vlad Tepes outfit.

(Edited for rethink due to misread/double rubber in mouth)

Kidnapping and turning a kid into a vampire to extend torture?

Man. Nice. In a strict fiction for horror sense of course...haha

To be honest, I never fully thought through what I posted. But knowing my brain I would've played the "lust perceived as love" card, with Metus turning Erasmus in an effort to keep him "to taste". The victimising being a helluva lot more subtle. Extended time lapse between him leaving home, meeting up with his Vistani "lover", and being "introduced" to Metus moreso than blatantly sold. Kinda torn on it all now...I still like a deeply flawed Van Richten who goes through hell to rise above those flaws and become what he is known for...

Thanks for your take either way.

And yeah, no need to bring that much of Vlad to Vlad. It's...off-putting a bit. EDIT: My bad. For some reason I was thinking of Drakov. Got caught up in the first bit of this reply that I forgot about my "wtf is with the ghoul face" thought that I had. Haha Either way, I picture a baron more...barony.

[Mistmaster]

My von Richten can't be Homophobic, since he was the apprentice of a very open-minded wandering scholar who taught him better. In Italy legal age of consent is 14 but large difference of age is surely a moral issue, and a figure of authorithy for the minor is legally forbidden; still in case of Metus, in my Mistworld there was nothing legitimate in it as he certainly did not turn him im a vampire upon consent, and he surely was in a position to exercitate unwarranted pressure on him, and even if there was consent, age of consent for Vampirization, in Lazendrak, where it is legal, is, unless for emergemcy, 21. (The age of complete phisical and mental development)

[Five]

My von Richten can't be Homophobic, since he was the apprentice of a very open-minded wandering scholar who taught him better. In Italy legal age of consent is 14 but large difference of age is surely a moral issue, and a figure of authorithy for the minor is legally forbidden; still in case of Metus, in my Mistworld there was nothing legitimate in it as he certainly did not turn him im a vampire upon consent, and he surely was in a position to exercitate unwarranted pressure on him, and even if there was consent, age of consent for Vampirization, in Lazendrak, where it is legal, is, unless for emergemcy, 21. (The age of complete phisical and mental development)

Yeah, it's not a very popular thought, judging by the responses. Haha