Reaction to WotC announcements re: Vistani (Drow, orcs, etc.

[tomokaicho]

Ultimately you have to ask yourself how far you are willing to see this process, and it is a process, go. Is pulling previously published products and placing them in the memoryhole your redline? Is having ONLY European tropes as acceptable fodder for published gaming material what you want?

Greyhawk Grognard came out against this absurdity. Good on him.

[kourkenko]

Ultimately you have to ask yourself how far you are willing to see this process, and it is a process, go. Is pulling previously published products and placing them in the memoryhole your redline? Is having ONLY European tropes as acceptable fodder for published gaming material what you want?

Greyhawk Grognard came out against this absurdity. Good on him.

We can sum up everything in just one sentence: how much money they will make with this decision. Because it's a business and they need to make money. The simple fact that the ones who launched the "orcs are black peoples and it's racist" admitted they don't even play RPG just show how big companies seems to be blind to the simple truth that twitter isn't the real world. I'm not even offended but tired , and a little afraid because i know where this kind of behavior will lead if left unchecked.

I grew up in a country under moral policing, burning books, sending peoples in reeducation camps and making public hanging. I know what it means. And the other side is terrible too... History is like an old clock, the pendulum is now going on the far left but beware because its always go back very fast and very hard. And none of them are good.

Just my two cents.

[Five]

There are more options than that, (OGL/Kickstarter for one), and suggesting that Dungeons and Dragons currently employs only European tropes while (some) people are calling for a ban on the past attempts to expand beyond them is straight-up laughable.

Why is there little issue with L5R when OA is so blatantly"racist"?

Are some people out there attempting to ride the current shitstorm and using social pressure to land (blackmail) a job? Are some people weaponising the storm in an attempt to slow down Wizards' success? Shadowrun mo-fu! Haha

Dunno and don't care really, beyond these surface (admittedly buckshot) thoughts. If Wizards is that easy of a target then good on those behind the assault. My game is unaffected at the end of the day. I should say games, as Wizards aren't the only game publisher with material on my table that I or my mates have reverse-engineered to suit our personal needs.

I do like the game of mental pokes and scratches though so there's that I guess. Thanks. Heh

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

I just saw the disclaimer on DMs Guild:

We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

That line I put in bold indicates that they currently have no intention of retracting the material. Whether that is a source of comfort to anyone depends on how much one trusts Wizards of the Coast.

[tomokaicho]

D&D episode of the TV show 'Community' pulled because of "Dark Elf blackface".

[ewancummins]

I just saw the disclaimer on DMs Guild:

We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

That line I put in bold indicates that they currently have no intention of retracting the material. Whether that is a source of comfort to anyone depends on how much one trusts Wizards of the Coast.

Now I have no respect left for WizBros.

They could give away the books for free if they think these TSR products really contain such a valuable social message about 'prejudice.'
But then they couldn't turn a buck on the creative work of others, could they?
If the works are 'wrong now and wrong then' WizBros shouldn't seek to profit from them.

[Epically]

I just saw the disclaimer on DMs Guild:

We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

That line I put in bold indicates that they currently have no intention of retracting the material. Whether that is a source of comfort to anyone depends on how much one trusts Wizards of the Coast.

Now I have no respect left for WizBros.

They could give away the books for free if they think these TSR products really contain such a valuable social message about 'prejudice.'
But then they couldn't turn a buck on the creative work of others, could they?
If the works are 'wrong now and wrong then' WizBros shouldn't seek to profit from them.

Every company is doing this to protect themselves from the idiots that will try to target them if they don't have this sort of disclaimer. Listen to the radio at the moment for current ads. They all say the exact same thing; "We know it's trying times.....", "We know that it's uncertain times.....", etc, etc.

[Five]

We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

Should be something like:

"We (Wizards) believe that diversity is a strength, and we are committed to making Dungeons and Dragons products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website may contain content that some current readers may find offensive. This content is presented as it was originally created as it was, and still is, content created for a fantasy setting in a fantasy game. In no way should any Dungeons and Dragons content be attributed with real world ethnic, racial, or gender prejudice."

...if Wizards wasn't currently defending social media posts (professional positions), throwing former employees under the bus ("It's not us, it's them!" Them being a country, cleverly dodging legal action), and other such nonsense. Otherwise, as some have mentioned, to condemn certain products yet still profit from them is nothing but a public window into a world of rotten (and contradictory) business ethics.

Too much time playing roleplaying games = can't catch a ball and throw it back. Haha

These are my unasked opinions and should be ignored if you don't like them,. The same as any content as found in your D&D books.

P.S.: Does anybody know if that disclaimer is the one Wizards had apologised for putting up so hastily, or is it the new final one?

[tomokaicho]

All Wizbro should do is put a disclaimer on its current products, which will surely give offense to people a few years down the track. Better safe than sorry!

[Five]

Haha yeah.

"You are about to play a fantasy game. If you cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality then this is not the game for you. If this is you, please contact us so we can exchange this product for a full refund."

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Heh

[Five]

It just dawned on me...I'm assuming that any plans for bringing Dark Sun to 5E, if any were actually in the works, are now put aside indefinitely. No doubt the setting's "normalisation of slavery" will be the next hot potato internet uproar that Wizards probably won't want to deal with. Only way around it that I can see right now would be to PG/PC it (barring creating a product line aimed more at "adults"), but that would change the Conan the Barbarian aspect of the setting to one like Conan the Destroyer. In-universe watering down of brutality just wouldn't do justice to the setting, IMO. Not that we can't inject...

Shame, that assumption.

Oh well. Good thing I still got the as intendeds.

Second thought: has 2E just become the incidental "R rating" for Wizards? Humour: Kinda feeling like I need to settle back into it now, like I don't belong in 5E. Haha

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

D&D episode of the TV show 'Community' pulled because of "Dark Elf blackface".

That is a decision I am not sure I agree with. However, I never saw that episode (or much of Community at all), so I will reserve judgment to avoid putting my foot in my mouth.

I have seen the movie Soul Man, which is controversial for use of blackface. I feel like anyone who wants to see that buried missed the point of the movie.

That being said, it's a complex subject, so I don't want to get into it and embarrass myself.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

FWIW, I think the pulling of the Community episode is dumb, since the whole point of it was that the character doing it was clueless to the implications, and was called out for it. If anything, it's evidence that the offensiveness of the whole Drow thing isn't some recently imagined molehill.

[Mischief]

This thread has now gone off the rails.

I know, right? I was too naive, hoping people would be mature enough to keep focus on possible new content and not werewolfing into the Fraternity of 4chan.
And worse, threads like this are just salting the earth, making the Ravenloft player base look embarrassing to any passerby. The drow are going to get some sort of reboot, they're mucking about with a few stat modifiers, a few "exotic"s get removed from ToA, and one or two Vistani sober up in CoS, and this is the sign that Wizards is jettisoning all the white males from its fanbase, deleting pre-5e from the internet, and planning to SWAT all tables who homebrew?
Furthermore, I can tell certain people in this thread criticizing Wizards haven't actually read any of the 5e sourcebooks, and are only talking about what they think is in there, rather than was actually is. It's a bit hypocritical, complaining that wizards is going off half cocked when certain yous are doing the very same.

I definitely get the impression that certain people would prefer to kill off Ravenloft than see it evolve. You all can find me in my own thread, continuing on my 5e reboots and original content, because I'd rather not surrender Ravenloft to the night.

[ewancummins]

Second thought: has 2E just become the incidental "R rating" for Wizards? Humour: Kinda feeling like I need to settle back into it now, like I don't belong in 5E. Haha

Wait until they reach back before 2E and discover the Monster Manual for 1E.

Gynosphinx nipples!