Comments/suggestions on Jester's rules (5e)

[Jester of the FoS]

Is it me, or is the benefit for the "bitten" dark shadow not a benefit?

Oops. Copied the personality traits instead of the benefit. Fixed.

[TheSalemlord]

Hi, I wanted to let you know that I added my own version of the the Zombie Lord in the Google Docs document.

Basically took part of his info of the Ravenloft Monster Appendix , don't know if there is copyright problem with that . If its the case, just remove it.

I strongly believe that the ZL must have the Odor of Death of 2nd edition, so I basically tried to adapt it to 5Ed. reduced the random effects to just the nausea and the deadly effect.
Nausea = Disadvantage
Death = Victim raise as a zombie under zombie lord's control.

Also tried to give him the Lair boost, based on the animate dead spell it uses to raise the corpses that are scattered on his lair.

I've choosed the Zombie Lord for being almost the last monster in the guide, so is easily reachable for editing or removing in any case.

The Image was made by me, so no copyrights stuff to worry.

[alhoon]

Hi, I wanted to let you know that I added my own version of the the Zombie Lord in the Google Docs document.

Basically took part of his info of the Ravenloft Monster Appendix , don't know if there is copyright problem with that . If its the case, just remove it.

I strongly believe that the ZL must have the Odor of Death of 2nd edition, so I basically tried to adapt it to 5Ed. reduced the random effects to just the nausea and the deadly effect.
Nausea = Disadvantage
Death = Victim raise as a zombie under zombie lord's control.

Also tried to give him the Lair boost, based on the animate dead spell it uses to raise the corpses that are scattered on his lair.

I've choosed the Zombie Lord for being almost the last monster in the guide, so is easily reachable for editing or removing in any case.

The Image was made by me, so no copyrights stuff to worry.

Awesome. And I agree that a zombie lord should be a "lair" creature.

[TheSalemlord]

Awesome. And I agree that a zombie lord should be a "lair" creature.

Yeah, I use to think of Zombie Lords as mini-bosses or low level Big Boss. (Marcel Tarascon's fault )

[Jester of the FoS]

Hi, I wanted to let you know that I added my own version of the the Zombie Lord in the Google Docs document.

Cool. That's why I made the document public. I'm trying to share the load of writing all the flavour text and stat blocks.
I'll edit the crap out of everything later, and revise for balance. But I'm waiting until post-DMG for that.

Basically took part of his info of the Ravenloft Monster Appendix , don't know if there is copyright problem with that . If its the case, just remove it.

Kinda.
I'd prefer not direct copies. Legally, we don't really have a leg to stand on, but I don't want to make blocking too easy.
But it's easy enough to edit and revise. I'll likely be starting with the original text and tweaking into a new state. Cut-and-pasting is a good place to start but terrible place to end.

I love lair effects.
In many ways, domains are extended lairs. I can see two levels of lair effects for darklords: immediate (their homes) and local (the domain). Closing the borders is a lair effect.
Strahd can do some generic vampire lair effects in Castle Ravenloft but also exerts some control over all of Barovia.

Fiends with a reality wrinkle pretty much have mobile lair effects.
Sinkholes of Evil are pretty much lairs without a monster. Just areas of general malice.
I'm also considering some generic lair effects. So you can just add it to a monster.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

While the Changeling background is a perfect concept, with strong roots in real folklore, I'm wary of the name being confused for the changelings produced by the Shadow Fey. One or the other should probably be renamed. The Shadow Fey ones already have the -kin names based on their breeds. Maybe as a whole they should be called "Arak-kin" or something like that and leave the more generic Changeling for this background concept. (Though maybe the background concept needs a rename too, since 5e will inevitably eventually have a form of the changeling (doppelganger-blooded) race.)

[Jester of the FoS]

While the Changeling background is a perfect concept, with strong roots in real folklore, I'm wary of the name being confused for the changelings produced by the Shadow Fey. One or the other should probably be renamed. The Shadow Fey ones already have the -kin names based on their breeds. Maybe as a whole they should be called "Arak-kin" or something like that and leave the more generic Changeling for this background concept. (Though maybe the background concept needs a rename too, since 5e will inevitably eventually have a form of the changeling (doppelganger-blooded) race.)

I'll worry about the other names when they come up, IF they are updated. There's a whole lot of monsters to get through before reaching the Arak Kin.

[alhoon]

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feature ... ses-realms

Those are some flavor curses for FRealms. Most seem mostly annoying.

[Ocule]

So far I think that the fear and horror shouldnt really have a set DC. Can probably make an easy to calculate formula, either by making it a creature specific effect or just something like 10+ charisma modifier or challenge rating something like that. Horror effects i would say you can use a chart or abstract it in increments of 5. Like 5, 10, 15, 20 for the horror saves. While consulting a chart is a pain in the ass during play, horror checks should probably be prepared ahead of time before the game.I would probably default it at 10 and adjust between -5 and +5 to the DC based on circumstance. That way people like clerics with a good wisdom save are likely to be okay especially at later levels.

In previous editions undead were also stronger, but far as i can tell there is no desecrate spell anymore so maybe just doing a land based buff to undead created inside the domains? Even if its just advantage on saving throws versus turning.

[alhoon]

I think they have turn resistance adding stuff to their turn save.

As for horror checks, I would go with either Jester's suggested 5/10/15/20 or with another scale, not based on creature. Unlike fear, horror isn't tied to creature.

For example opening the door and seeing your wife dead is horrific. But watching your daughter of 10 years, holding the knife and smile to you happily as she plunges it in again is certainly more horrific. An even though your daughter may be CR 0 that act is more horrific than watching the baker involuntarily turn to a monster at full moon.

[Jester of the FoS]

So far I think that the fear and horror shouldnt really have a set DC. Can probably make an easy to calculate formula, either by making it a creature specific effect or just something like 10+ charisma modifier or challenge rating something like that. Horror effects i would say you can use a chart or abstract it in increments of 5. Like 5, 10, 15, 20 for the horror saves. While consulting a chart is a pain in the ass during play, horror checks should probably be prepared ahead of time before the game. I would probably default it at 10 and adjust between -5 and +5 to the DC based on circumstance. That way people like clerics with a good wisdom save are likely to be okay especially at later levels.

One of my strictures for projects like this is to design rules for the edition, not for an older edition in the language of the new edition. It should be 5e Horror rules, not 3e Horror rules for 5e characters. It's about rules that make Ravenloft fit the edition, going against the design when absolutely necessary. Exceptions should be important, they should be done for a reason.

5e is really about set DCs. You don't build DCs except for character powers. Cover is the one exception in the PHB, and that's pretty simple.
That might change with the DMG, but so far charts and modifiers don't exist.
I've barely started work on that because the DMG isn't out yet, and I want to see what options that includes. If it's awesome I'd have wasted time, but if it sucks it will take me just as long to finish. There's lots of other content to write in the meantime.

Page 171 of the PHB does have a difficulty chart. Easy is DC 10, Medium is DC 15, Hard is DC 20. It's probably possible to refer to those terms. And "Easy DC Horror check" or a "Medium DC Fear save".

Ideally, that stuff should be prepared, but you cannot count on the DM having time or the party sticking to the rails or inspiration not striking mid-game. There might be a great scene that just cries out to be made horrific.
Because horror has less combat impact, the base DC can be higher. It's a less common effect. So I'd start at DC 15 and go higher and lower if absolutely necessary, with Advantage and Disadvantage applied for most situational modifiers.

In previous editions undead were also stronger, but far as i can tell there is no desecrate spell anymore so maybe just doing a land based buff to undead created inside the domains? Even if its just advantage on saving throws versus turning.

Lair effects can handle a lot of that. Sinkholes of evil or areas of negative energy.

[Ocule]

That makes sense, i think i would prefer to use the scaling DCs like the PHB, easy medium or hard like it suggested rather than defaulting it always to 13. Maybe giving advantage on fear or horror checks if they have seen it before or disadvantage if they have seen it before and nearly died or something. Certain individual monsters do have a fear aura like the dragons i think have it. Also was thinking is the paladins immunity to fear still in your guide, because replacing their ability with advantage on fear checks might not be a bad idea.

[Jester of the FoS]

Also was thinking is the paladins immunity to fear still in your guide, because replacing their ability with advantage on fear checks might not be a bad idea.

Technically it's not an immunity to fear, it's immunity to the "frightened" condition. So they're still subject to fear from mundane source (i.e. roleplaying).

Fear as an element of the game is a roleplaying element, and fear checks shouldn't be used as a beat stick. Especially when the party is level 10.

[alhoon]

Spells also give modifiers. Just saying.
I'm not adverse to small modifiers even if they're not explicitly named in the PHB. There's no rule that we can't add small modifiers after all. If it helps the game, I'm all for giving small bonuses. Advantage/disadvantage are huge bonuses/penalties.

Also, to be frank, the PHB has like 30-35 pages dedicated on how to play the game, including combat and magic. The rest is races, classes (big chunk) and spells (big chunk) with backgrounds and equipment fit in (smaller chunks).

So, in 35 pages to detail the whole game they address the big things hence smaller charts and modifiers aren't needed everywhere, but there is micromanagement; check the exhaustive exhaustion rules.

PS. Horror could work that way IMO. from 0 to 6, like the exhaustion with progressive effects.

[Jester of the FoS]

Spells also give modifiers. Just saying.
I'm not adverse to small modifiers even if they're not explicitly named in the PHB. There's no rule that we can't add small modifiers after all. If it helps the game, I'm all for giving small bonuses. Advantage/disadvantage are huge bonuses/penalties.

Also, to be frank, the PHB has like 30-35 pages dedicated on how to play the game, including combat and magic. The rest is races, classes (big chunk) and spells (big chunk) with backgrounds and equipment fit in (smaller chunks).

So, in 35 pages to detail the whole game they address the big things hence smaller charts and modifiers aren't needed everywhere, but there is micromanagement; check the exhaustive exhaustion rules.

The difference is spells are self-contained rules. Only the person who casts the spell need know the rule. The fighter doesn't unless it's a buff.
Fear and horror affect all characters (or should). It's more of a general rule. Which makes it hard to make complex, as it adds complexity to all the classes and characters.

PS. Horror could work that way IMO. from 0 to 6, like the exhaustion with progressive effects.

I could totally see a madness or horrified chart mimicking exhaustion.
That might end up being the route I take for madness.