Comments/suggestions on Jester's rules (5e)

[alhoon]

Well, true.

BTW. Loved the Callibans.
If anything, as a Variant, I would go with: +1 to strength, +1 from location, +1 wherever the player/DM want (Genetical, magical influence etc). But I would do that mostly for PC callibans; NPC callibans even if that were the choices, I would default to the +2 str/+1 location.


I also think you go the right way with the shadows (but not there yet). Of course, I can't be sure since I haven't read what inspirations are in D&D.
In any case, I wouldn't mind if these traits were somewhat positive with a non-mechanical drawback. After all, it's a cooperative game not a contest.
If you want absolute "fairness" a DM could allow non-trait possessing characters to get a +1 to one of their trained skills or another small mechanical benefit (as proficiency with one more skill/tool).

Why I say "not there yet"? Because I think they could work as elaborate background benefits.
I.e. instead of "artisan" you could be "cold one artisan", have one skill different and a different trait.

[alhoon]

Example:
Ghostsight:
After a brush with death, you can see dead people. And they seem to know.
Substitute Feature (lose either the original background feature, a language or one skill): You see creatures in the ethereal as if they were normally visible. You're also more accustomed to the sight of undead (+2 to fear and horror saves against undead, -1 against to all madness saves)
Flaw is fixed: Ethereal creatures see you unusually clearly and may be attracted to you out of curiosity or malice.

Example of the example:
Soldier with ghost-sight:
Tornuk, an infantryman in the service of one of Darkon's barons during Azalin's absence, nearly lost his life after a Talon left him for dead. Since he was found by a traveler and nourished back to health, he is plagued by visions of the "Gray Realm" as taught by the Eternal Order. As such, he's a follower of that grim religion.
Although his "condition" forced him to leave the army in not particularly good terms he is still a patriot that strives to fight the horrors of the land and postpone the "Hour of Ascension" appeasing the dead that talk to him or destroying those that cross in this world, one undead at a time.

Specialty: Infantry
Feature: Ghostsight; Tornuk is no longer in the army and while some soldiers respect him for his trials other consider him either mad or liar (and deserter). As such, he doesn't get the usual benefit from being in the army.
Suggested characteristics: Personality/ideal/bond: (from the background above) Flaw: The dead notice me as I notice them. That is rarely a good thing.

[Jester of the FoS]

Inspiration is in Basic and I linked the page with the rules in the previous page of the thread.
It's really simple: when you roleplay your bonds (what your are connected to), your personality trait, or your flaw you gain Inspiration, which let's you reroll a d20.

Shadows would add another method of gaining inspiration, mostly by being some roleplaying character traits. And it would offer a new unique mechanical bonus for spending Inspiration.
Off the top of my head:

Ghostsight would be seeing the spirits of the dead, both ghosts and strong presences left behind. They'd also see ethereal resonance, witnessing events from decades past. People with ghostsight cannot turn the power on or off, and often witness scenes of horror, meet someone only to find out they died long ago, or are distracted by spirits seeking to tell their story or ask for help with now impossible tasks.
Benefit: you can spend your inspiration to witness the ethereal resonance a recent event, possibly gaining a clue to what happened. Alternatively, you can spend your Inspiration to see an invisible undead creature. Make a Wisdom (Perception) check as if it were only lightly obscured to spot the creature.

[alhoon]

Example 2: Redhead
You were touched by the fey and have minor supernatural powers to show for it and a mark.

Substitute feature (lose the original background feature and a tool, a language or a skill):
Choose three of the following cantrips. You can use these cantrips a total of 3/day. You can use each cantrip one time, or use one cantrip 3 times or in any combination. The spell save DC is 8+Charisma modifier where applicable.
Possible cantrips: Guidance, resistance, dancing lights, mage hand, minor illusion, prestidigitation
Flaw (fixed): Aside of one mark that could betray your condition (6 fingers, red head etc) you also have to abide by a "taboo", that if you break you lose the magical benefits of this background for 1 day.
Example taboos could be: don't speak first in a discussion, don't wear a specific color, don't sit in the same place more than three times, don't consume wine (or veal or beer etc).

Example 2: Trina, Redhead criminal.

Trina didn't know why she was born with a mane of fiery red hair in a small village in Tepest but she knows that her parents had her crop her hair short. When the first signs of her magical power started manifesting at the age of 8, Trina was quickly abandoned by her family, given to a widow in a faraway hamlet that was willing to take her in to put her to work. She doesn't have many good memories from the 4 years she spent at the beck and call of the woman since the widow never made an attempt to get close to the girl keeping her distance from her. So, when the inquisition came looking for her she had no real regrets abandoning the place and escaping to Nova Vaasa.
In the filth-ridden roads of Nova Vaasa, Trina had to steal to survive and her short-cropped red hair didn't draw as much attention or condemnation. For a couple of years she fell in with a group of street urchins but she never joined a criminal organization. In her early teens she started working in low paying waitress jobs, never completely giving up her thieving practices but also never selling her body.

Specialty: Pickpocket
Feature: Redhead (forego thief's tools and criminal contact). Cantrips (3/day): dancing lights, guidance, mage hand.
Suggested characteristics: Personality: Slow to trust (5). Ideal: People (5). bond: Trina feels duty-bound to the surviving orphans that helped her through the first years in Nova Vaasa.
Flaw: Taboo. Trina can't wear red. Even blood on a white shirt would trigger it making her lose her magic for a day.

[alhoon]

EDIT: Well, not bad but I prefer my versions.

I like the "spending inspiration" though. In the example I gave for the ghost-sight, your suggestion to spend inspiration is nice. For the redhead, it could recharge the cantrips, giving you another 3 uses.

[Jester of the FoS]

EDIT: Well, not bad but I prefer my versions.

I like the "spending inspiration" though. In the example I gave for the ghost-sight, your suggestion to spend inspiration is nice. For the redhead, it could recharge the cantrips, giving you another 3 uses.

The convenient thing about inspiration is that it gives a rough power level: the bonus has to be equal to a reroll.

I didn't want to tie them to background as I wanted backgrounds to remain interesting and independent. Otherwise they'd just be backgrounds.
I considers making them backgrounds, but they didn't seem as interesting as other backgrounds and didn't do the same things (provide skills and tool usage).

I also wanted them to potentially be something gained during play.

[alhoon]

Hmmm... Not bad reasoning.

[Jester of the FoS]

One bit of design that I'm considering for Dark Shadows is the ability of the DM to bribe the PC with inspiration based on their Shadow.
This is pulling an idea from Fate, with compels.

Basically, the DM looks at the player's shadow and suggests that it's acting up, pushing the character to distraction or causing a problem, which also gives the character Inspiration.
"You're having a sudden, intense craving for opium" for the Addict or "you enter the room and without warning see an intense scene of violence" for Gravesight.
This both causes an immediate problem that potentially derails the story or causes a conflict and is a prompt for roleplaying.
The character can either take the bait and gain inspiration, or refuse and turn away the inspiration. It's using Inspiration as a bribe rather than a reward. Proactive roleplaying controlled by the DM.

Thoughts? Would this be something you'd like to see, something that makes Dark Shadows more interesting? Or is it awkward and forced?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Not a fan. I mean, yeah, sometimes you need to bait a plot hook, so we all use stuff similar to that, but I don't like the mechanical connection to not taking the hook. It could slide into the DM roleplaying for you. "You take pity on the helpless girl." "what? no I don't! she's clearly faking!"

And rewarding an addict for giving into his addiction? That has a weird connotation too...

[Jester of the FoS]

Not a fan. I mean, yeah, sometimes you need to bait a plot hook, so we all use stuff similar to that, but I don't like the mechanical connection to not taking the hook. It could slide into the DM roleplaying for you. "You take pity on the helpless girl." "what? no I don't! she's clearly faking!"

Fair enough. It's something I'm considering but haven't completely decided to use yet.

That's the thing, it's less a plot hook and more a character moment.
Using your example, a PC with the Dark Shadow "Reincarnated" might have been a mother in their past life with a soft spot for young children.
The PC sees the little girl and says "she's obviously faking" and the DM can go "Your maternal instinct flares up, pushing you to take her at her world."

Now, the player can take the inspiration and do something they know is stupid. Or they can reject the inspiration and say "I deny my past self and push down the feelings and insist the child is faking."

And rewarding an addict for giving into his addiction? That has a weird connotation too...

That is a little weird.
Really, it's a bribe to roleplay when inconvenient. In 5e, characters have flaws and can purposely play them up, potentially for a reward. This is the reverse, with the DM offering the reward but prompting the flaw.
It's not the player choosing to give into their addiction for a reward, it's the DM pushing the addiction at a story opportune moment.

"It's past midnight and all is quiet. The air is still and still warm from the long summer day.
You've been guarding the girl for four hours now and nothing has happened. The vampire has not come. He might not be coming at all tonight.
The day was so very warm and things haven't cooled since sunset. It's been a long four hours and your mouth is dry.
You remember passing a bottle of brandy on your way up. Surely one quick drink would not hurt. The vampire probably isn't coming tonight anyway."

And the player can go "yeah, I am thirsty" and take the inspiration knowing things might help the mood or story. But they can always refuse to give into temptation, fight their illness, and maintain their post.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Yeah, I understand it's still optional whether you take the bait. And it's not too far off from Fear checks, etc. But it's still treading awfully close to railroading the PC's feelings, which seems worse somehow than railroading his or her actions.

I mean, the addiction one makes sense, since a character can't control their cravings. (Though it could be argued that the character's player should be in control of them, OR that there should be some periodic save or check, so neither the DM nor the player are in control.) Similarly, I have no problem with Ghostsight being under the DM's control. That's the way it's always been. Either there are ghosts/ER to see or there isn't. But something like Cold One .... I would resent the DM telling me ("remember, you're supposed to be emotionally stunted... If you play this encounter that way, I'll give you this carrot.... -- I mean, Inspiration!")

I see where you're going, with rewarding RP, but I feel like the DM should take a soft touch with telling the player what and how to RP.

[alhoon]

I would kinda agree with Gonzoron. Also, I don't like "suggesting" to players how they will feel. I'm playing all the NPCs, am I also supposed to bribe-play the PCs too? Kinda too much.

[Mortavius]

Just read the Gargoyle race Jester.

I don't think it's something I would allow in my games, but I see what you're trying to do with it, and I think it would probably have a place in someone who wanted to run a very "fantasy" version of Ravenloft and ignore the xenophobic aspect of the setting.

Overall I think you did a good job with it.

Ironically, I think the two possibilities of Gargoyles (race or construct) fit better with each type of setting. If you're going for a fantasy Ravenloft, then a race of Gargoyles seems to fit well. If you're going for more of a gothic horror traditional Ravenloft setting, then a construct given life seems to fit better. The problem with the construct idea is you have the issue of Minotaurs in 2E; each individual almost becomes a unique being with it's own history. Not necessarily a problem, but it's something for the player to consider; they may not be able to come from a community of their own kind, for example. That's sort of why I think it fits better in the second type of setting, where you won't necessarily be playing one, the DM can come up with a backstory for the gargoyle if he/she needs to.

[Jester of the FoS]

Just read the Gargoyle race Jester.

I don't think it's something I would allow in my games, but I see what you're trying to do with it, and I think it would probably have a place in someone who wanted to run a very "fantasy" version of Ravenloft and ignore the xenophobic aspect of the setting.

I'm not sure I'd allow them in my game either, but I thought I should at least present the option for people who want "dragonborn" that fit the setting.

I'm viewing them as a small, hidden people that lurk in ruins and are mistaken for stone gargoyles. I might describe their skin as hard with stone-like scales. They don't walk into towns or spend time in the open, and hide out of sight in the dark corners of the world. Rare and almost forgotten.

Ironically, I think the two possibilities of Gargoyles (race or construct) fit better with each type of setting. If you're going for a fantasy Ravenloft, then a race of Gargoyles seems to fit well. If you're going for more of a gothic horror traditional Ravenloft setting, then a construct given life seems to fit better. The problem with the construct idea is you have the issue of Minotaurs in 2E; each individual almost becomes a unique being with it's own history. Not necessarily a problem, but it's something for the player to consider; they may not be able to come from a community of their own kind, for example. That's sort of why I think it fits better in the second type of setting, where you won't necessarily be playing one, the DM can come up with a backstory for the gargoyle if he/she needs to.

Constructs become tricky, as that has different rules, which occupy so much of the design space and would require a pretty heavy rewrite of the race.
I think there's room for a golem race, adapting the warforged, but I think gargoyles work better as a "species".

[Mortavius]

Sorry, when I said construct race, I was referring to your idea of them rather than being a true race, they were constructed and then gained life later. Apologies for any confusion; I don't think you should actually make them constructs for all the reasons you mentioned.