Ghostsight feat?

[Joël of the FoS]

I have a new PC in my game (to replace his other PC that died) and he told me yesterday he'd like to take the Ghostsight feat.

Ghostsight [General]
You can see creatures in the Near Ethereal. Since ghosts make up the majority of creatures in Ravenloft's Near Ethereal, folklore views this as the ability to see the dead

While the feat can be very interesting, and full of roleplaying opportunities, I don't see this feat as very pleasant.

How do you see this feat goes in a PC's everyday life?

Ideas for strange / eeries / horrifying encounters only he can see?

Joël

[High Priest Mikhal]

Because a person with Ghostsight can't automatically tell who is ethereal and who is physical it may be more awkward than unpleasant when they acknowledge people others can't see. Ghosts with truly horrific appearances (means of death, reflection of remains, or just by their nature) may call for Fear or Horror saves. It really depends on the DM how they want to run with such a strange ability. Just remember that it's supposed to be equal parts boon and bane, as with all things Ravenloft.

[starfalconkd]

Wait, somebody voluntarily took this feat in Ravenloft? Wow, I hope their Fear/Horror/Madness save is decent.
But anyway...
I think the most interesting evolution of this feat would be to have a low rank ghost, perhaps one who can't manifest for some reason, realize the PC can see them. Have the ghost follow the PC around. Perhaps the ghost is malevolent and constantly jumps out at the PC trying to scare him. Maybe it's just curious and is constantly around, for example the PC wakes up and the ghost is hovering right above him, mere inches from his face. If used correctly it may drive the PC mad. At the very least it would produce all sorts of social gaffes.

[Five]

Remember when bluetooth first came out and you had to look two or three times to see if that person talking to themselves was let out of the Mental or not? Yeah. I'd play that.

Up the OR, throw in some dual reality scenes for the player/character. Trippy stuff like conversations and 'dream' sequences where entire evenings are spent at the pub that no longer exists. Or something like that but twisted. Yet balance it with some psychic detective moments. Some clues and intel won't be so easily proven in a court of law (or to clients, bosses, etc.), so it certainly could be a challenge for the player to prove their knowledge to any outside their head, even their own mates. Beginning of an adventure ("Spotlight on:" adventure) could be a story reversal. The PC knows the killer, the details of the crime, and the motive, but they cannot prove any of it. They must then sift through reality to tie it all up and help put the victim to Final Rest.

Or something like that.

Doubting sanity, sleep deprivation, skittish looks, and other such things aside.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

One of the best feats ever.

Watch The Sixth Sense. Then do that.

(I would give the examples of how I've used it in my game, but I know you've read my journals, so you've seen them.)

Seriously, the best thing about this feat is you can use as the DM hotline to feed clues for just about any adventure. Almost every adventure involves someone dead, who could easily be a ghost.

[High Priest Mikhal]

One of the best feats ever.

Watch The Sixth Sense. Then do that.

(I would give the examples of how I've used it in my game, but I know you've read my journals, so you've seen them.)

Seriously, the best thing about this feat is you can use as the DM hotline to feed clues for just about any adventure. Almost every adventure involves someone dead, who could easily be a ghost.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that movie. But the Ghostsight feat doesn't say a thing about hearing ghosts, just seeing them. Does it also entail hearing what they say? Or are they mute without some other ability like speak with dead?

[Five]

But the Ghostsight feat doesn't say a thing about hearing ghosts, just seeing them. Does it also entail hearing what they say? Or are they mute without some other ability like speak with dead?

Up to the interpreter, but I'd use it as a DM control device. Audible could affect all characters or those targeted by the ghost. But to a character with the Ghostsight feat I'd allow them some room to occasionally 'eavesdrop'. At least, until the spirit realises that somebody is aware of their presence (mumbling/groaning/screaming/crying, footsteps/habits, etc.). The ghostsighters are just more in tune than most anybody else. Maybe the ghost targets them before others if and when they figure out that these individuals are the only ones not oblivious to their existence...for better and for worse.

Coupled with, as you mentioned "Because a person with Ghostsight can't automatically tell who is ethereal and who is physical", it certainly puts the character in a unique position to say the least.

Who and what is real? What? Hang on, can't think straight. Am I human? Trapped. Ghost? What the...? Are you people alive or dead? Friends dead, alive, I don't know. Leave me alone. Why me? Stop looking at me like that. Did you just see that? Wake up! Sleep would be nice. This is hell. Why is this...? Where am I now? What are you staring at?! Did that just happen? Ha ha ha...I want to cry...scream...Leave. Me. ALONE!

A PC/NPC spiritual mentor of some sort would be a nice addition to help keep the PC relatively normal (and to keep the group dynamic from potentially fraying). But a quick trip to Dominia after a particularly nasty meltdown would work wonders for his/her soul...yeah?

Alternately, if you combine the feats Ghostsight and Haunted (I think it is), then you could make things very interesting for the player. Ghostsight would only be triggered when that character is alone. Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary.

Ha

[Five]

You know what? I'm completely off here: "You have no special ability to hear or physically affect ethereal creatures."

Oh well. Call it a mod..

[Germaine]

Despite rules statements to the contrary, I almost always interpret Ghostsight as including hearing as well. That said, I once DMd a ghostwatcher PC (back when it was a 2e kit), who also had a situation something like the Haunted feat. For reasons too complex to go into here, he was followed around by the ghost of a murdered party member that only he could ever see or hear. The spirit, who came and went served as a sort of mentor/ security system/ plot device, and would occasionally bring other troubled spirits and their problems the PC's way. Gonzoron has an excellent point about "The Sixth Sense", and two other sources of inspiration I would recommend are the early "Necroscope" novels by Brian Lumley and the TV series "Slings and Arrows"- although the latter's ghost is more often played for laughs. In addition, the old SotK article "Lights in the Fog" has a character who can see and speak with the dead, and uses the talent to write brilliant and insightful books on history and archaeology- a truly novel idea, I think.

[Garudos Celestar]

Reread the write-up on Madeleine Galbraith in the Book of Secrets article "Lights in the Fog." Along with Orinda Nahle, she's one of my favorite NPCs in that article, and her personal history would make a good inspiration for a Ghostsight PC who wants to communicate with the ghosts that surround her.

[MichaelTumey]

I'm curious there was a thread here a few weeks ago concerning Paladins and Detect Undead vs. Detect Evil (vs. Detect Chaos). There was some concern on that thread where detecting undead was a no-go in Ravenloft due to undead being better able to hide themselves from prying eyes. As if alignments were better protected in Ravenloft, and consequently undead too.

Wouldn't a Ghostsight ability be counter to the logic above?

I would think Ghostsight would be just fine in game, and be very effective in revealing clues on dealing with ghostly beings. However, if Detecting Undead/Evil is a problem in Ravenloft, wouldn't Ghostsight have a similar issue?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

The difference there is, when you're at a dinner party and the local noble comes up and tries to hire you for a job, it kinda derails the plot when the infallible "vampire alarm" goes off. Ghosts typically don't try to pass themselves off as living, and if they do, ghostsight doesn't give that away unless there's a second observer who can't see them. If your plot revolves around a ghost sneaking around invisibly, Ghostsight could derail it, but that's pretty rare, and can be bypassed by a "Smart" ghost if needed. (Ghostsight doesn't go through solid objects, so a ghost can remain invisible if they want be moving through the ground, or keeping walls between the ghostsighted PC and itself.)

[MichaelTumey]

That makes sense.

From my research on Japanese ghosts for Kaidan, I've discovered that many, many ghosts in Japan actually do try to pass themselves off as the living, at least long enough to fool an observer, until they finally attack them. But then if a ghost is in non-incorporeal form and not invisible, one can't really tell if it's a ghost or not. I would rule that as long as the ghost is in apparent invisible form (being ethereal) Ghostsight would work. However, if a ghost is readily apparent, as if in physical form, Ghostsight would offer no benefit.

[Five]

A scene just popped into my head where Ghostsight (PC) sees a flashing glimpse of "(Shag) me Jesus!" from a street vendor who everybody else sees smiling the mundane smile of a greedy bastard. Yet it is so quick that the PC can't be sure of what he saw. The fiendish grin was directed right at them..

Is the character experienced enough to recognise the telltale signs of possession? Probably not, first starting out. Should he/she bring attention to such doubts? What if they do but they're wrong? An innocent man might be lynched, or worse. Could he/she live with such knowledge, guilt? How would others react if he/she reveals their 'curse'? Self-preservation versus Moral Good. Fine line indeed. Maybe it's easier if they just walk away?

Spirits (DM) messing with his/her head. Has to be done. Heh

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

From my research on Japanese ghosts for Kaidan, I've discovered that many, many ghosts in Japan actually do try to pass themselves off as the living, at least long enough to fool an observer, until they finally attack them.

Yeah, I was speaking more of the traditional European/American ghost story, where the ghost is usually lost in their own delusions or emotions and without a coherent agenda. In those cases, if the ghost is mistaken for the living, it's probably not intentional.

But then if a ghost is in non-incorporeal form and not invisible, one can't really tell if it's a ghost or not. I would rule that as long as the ghost is in apparent invisible form (being ethereal) Ghostsight would work. However, if a ghost is readily apparent, as if in physical form, Ghostsight would offer no benefit.

Yup, that's the rules exactly. It's not detect ghosts, it just lets you see ghosts that aren't manifested as though they were.