lostboy has shared another phenomenal map with us. I am not exagerrating when I say that this is the most detailed gaming map I've ever seen. Seriously, please take a look.
His amazing map of Port-a-Lucine for NeoTiamat's "The Shattered City Campaign" (running now in our Cafe) is now available in the Mausoleum, in jpeg format and full-detail pdf format. He has also graciously provided us with his Illustrator source files for the buildings and
for everything else.
Thanks, lostboy and NeoTiamat. Enjoy, everyone!
Another gift for the new year...
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Gonzoron of the FoS
- Evil Genius
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Another gift for the new year...
"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
Thanks to Ron and the FoS for hosting it.
I would like to add that French isn't my native language so please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors (of course High Mordentish isnt exactly the same as French so Im claiming artisitic licence
)
*edit*
Thought I had better add these notes:
1. Yes I know it takes a while to open and draw itself but theres a lot of vector work in there.
2. if you are using a version of Acrobat Reader older than 7 you need to upgrade in order to view it properly (its free at adobe.com).
3. Where you normally find the bookmark tab on the left there is one called "layers" openign this gives you several layers with little eyes next to them, by clicking the eyes you can turn off (hide) certain layers.
4. You can zoom to the maximum and view really tiny detail in the map.
5. However rather than use the zoom tool (magnifying glass) that redraws the map every time you click it, why not use the Loupe tool (in the Tools menu in adobe reader) this lets you magnify only one small part at a time and is much faster to view detail.
I would like to add that French isn't my native language so please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors (of course High Mordentish isnt exactly the same as French so Im claiming artisitic licence
)*edit*
Thought I had better add these notes:
1. Yes I know it takes a while to open and draw itself but theres a lot of vector work in there.
2. if you are using a version of Acrobat Reader older than 7 you need to upgrade in order to view it properly (its free at adobe.com).
3. Where you normally find the bookmark tab on the left there is one called "layers" openign this gives you several layers with little eyes next to them, by clicking the eyes you can turn off (hide) certain layers.
4. You can zoom to the maximum and view really tiny detail in the map.
5. However rather than use the zoom tool (magnifying glass) that redraws the map every time you click it, why not use the Loupe tool (in the Tools menu in adobe reader) this lets you magnify only one small part at a time and is much faster to view detail.
"I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
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Kaitou Kage
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:53 am
- Location: Here and there
- Contact:
Make a map, we said, expecting a nice little thing with maybe some trees and buildings on it...
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
Cheers hope its useful!
Yep I am a member over at the cartographers guild, although for some reason I dont seem to post much (spend too much time here probabley). I really need to rememdy that.
Kage - please dont tempt me into writing a guide on mapping in Illustrator. But here's some guidelines for anyone wanting to do somethign similar in a vector program (note these are all based on using Illustrator but should all be totally replicable in Freehand or Inkscape as well:
1.
Work in layers if you can, with something this size being able to isolate elements is invaluable (i.e select all the road names at once and change the font colour with one click). However before turning them into pdf’s or exporting its worth flattening the artwork into a single layer to reduce the file size. If you want I can post a version with the layers separated..
2.
The main technique I use for drawing streets is to find a suitable real life map, screen grab it, port it into illustrator, rotate it so its isn’t recognisable, lock the layer so it can’t move, then create a new layer on top. On this layer use the pen tool and simply draw connecting points for each road, remembering to de-select at the end of each street, so in effect you have a mass of separate lines (you’ll see why in a minute). For curved streets you need to use the convert anchor point tool and pull the anchors to get a bend.
Once you are happy with the layout of the lines, select all of them and stroke them in black to whatever pt size works for you. Then add a second stroke of a lighter colour but make the pt size 1-2pts smaller than the black. Alternatively you can make yourself some custom art brushes to replicate this then just apply them to your paths. Either way works… Incidently this is why you made a load of seperate paths , as when you apply a stroke it obviosuly thickens the path, and is you have oblique junctiosn that obliqueness gets magnified and you end up with lots of crazy sharp edges sticking out.
This will start to get there but look a bit disjointed, the secret is to create a compound path of all the lines, which you do by selecting all the paths then Object > Compound Path> make. This intersects all the paths and makes smooth joins, although you may need to go back and using the Direct Selection tool move the end points of paths if they overlap too much.
3.
The trees, boats and docks were all hand-drawn from scratch in illustrator and then because I knew I’d use a lot of them registered as a symbol and then placed in the map as instances. Effectively this means Illustrator is only using one tree graphic and replicating it from that (which cuts file size down massively- to use this you just drag and drop from the symbol pallette). This is a useful tip if you know you will use multiples of the same piece of artwork.
4.
The real key to making the maps work though is to get used to using the Pathfinder options, in particular add and subtract. What these do is allow you to add a shape to another shape area or take it away (you can then make the change permanent by hitting expand). I used this extensively to do things like the rivers, coastline, and the grey urban background to make sure they all matched up at the edges. This take some practice as at first it isn’t very intuitive and you’ll end up scratching your head about why certain things have happened, but stick with it as it’s the most time saving process I’ve found in illustrator for drawing complex shapes.
5.
The buildings are all based on real life buildings I found on Google maps or sketchup (some are more obvious than others, cookies are available for those able to identify them – although one of them is actually my house). In each case I ported the graphic into illustrator and traced them essentially using the pen tool. I created several gradient fills for the roofs etc. But really this was an easy process just time-consuming.
6.
The forest is a custom pattern I created using the tree symbols. To do this you create a square tile of any size you want. Then populate it with trees, it makes sense to use several different sized and shaped trees for the right look and space them randomly. The real trick here is to make the right edge line up with the left and the top line up with the bottom, that way you get seamless tiling. So fill with trees to close to the edge, then make a separate line of trees and place overlapping the top of your tile, on the bottom side place the same line of trees in exactly the same horizontal position, making sure whatever is outside the tile vertically on the top is within the tile on the bottom and vice versa. Rinse and repeat for the left and right sides. To then create the tile you simply draw a square that fits exactly to the size of the tile, make sure it’s the topmost object then select everything and hit the crop option in the pathfinder palette. This trims everything to the topmost shape and gives you a seamless pattern tile. Now drag this into the pattern pallet and you can use it to fill any shape or path.
7.
To create the text aligned to the roads I simply copied the whole road network layer and pasted on top in a new layer, and removed all the strokes and released the compound path. Then you take the Type on a path tool and add the names to your heart’s content.
8.
Finally the great thing about vectors is you can go back and using the direct selection tool move any single point you want to adjust and realign things. For example as I was adding road names I was tweaking the position of the roads themselves, changing the curve of the river slightly, re-sizing and amending buildings. It’s all fluid which is a joy after working in raster programs like Photoshop. Vectors are great for something like this where you have a lot of detail, of course its very difficult to replicate the graphical effects something like photoshop can perform, but thats the tradeoff for a crisp, clear map you can view at any scale.
If anyone is really interested I can supply some files or some screen grabs to illustrate the above.
Yep I am a member over at the cartographers guild, although for some reason I dont seem to post much (spend too much time here probabley). I really need to rememdy that.
Kage - please dont tempt me into writing a guide on mapping in Illustrator.
But here's some guidelines for anyone wanting to do somethign similar in a vector program (note these are all based on using Illustrator but should all be totally replicable in Freehand or Inkscape as well:1.
Work in layers if you can, with something this size being able to isolate elements is invaluable (i.e select all the road names at once and change the font colour with one click). However before turning them into pdf’s or exporting its worth flattening the artwork into a single layer to reduce the file size. If you want I can post a version with the layers separated..
2.
The main technique I use for drawing streets is to find a suitable real life map, screen grab it, port it into illustrator, rotate it so its isn’t recognisable, lock the layer so it can’t move, then create a new layer on top. On this layer use the pen tool and simply draw connecting points for each road, remembering to de-select at the end of each street, so in effect you have a mass of separate lines (you’ll see why in a minute). For curved streets you need to use the convert anchor point tool and pull the anchors to get a bend.
Once you are happy with the layout of the lines, select all of them and stroke them in black to whatever pt size works for you. Then add a second stroke of a lighter colour but make the pt size 1-2pts smaller than the black. Alternatively you can make yourself some custom art brushes to replicate this then just apply them to your paths. Either way works… Incidently this is why you made a load of seperate paths , as when you apply a stroke it obviosuly thickens the path, and is you have oblique junctiosn that obliqueness gets magnified and you end up with lots of crazy sharp edges sticking out.
This will start to get there but look a bit disjointed, the secret is to create a compound path of all the lines, which you do by selecting all the paths then Object > Compound Path> make. This intersects all the paths and makes smooth joins, although you may need to go back and using the Direct Selection tool move the end points of paths if they overlap too much.
3.
The trees, boats and docks were all hand-drawn from scratch in illustrator and then because I knew I’d use a lot of them registered as a symbol and then placed in the map as instances. Effectively this means Illustrator is only using one tree graphic and replicating it from that (which cuts file size down massively- to use this you just drag and drop from the symbol pallette). This is a useful tip if you know you will use multiples of the same piece of artwork.
4.
The real key to making the maps work though is to get used to using the Pathfinder options, in particular add and subtract. What these do is allow you to add a shape to another shape area or take it away (you can then make the change permanent by hitting expand). I used this extensively to do things like the rivers, coastline, and the grey urban background to make sure they all matched up at the edges. This take some practice as at first it isn’t very intuitive and you’ll end up scratching your head about why certain things have happened, but stick with it as it’s the most time saving process I’ve found in illustrator for drawing complex shapes.
5.
The buildings are all based on real life buildings I found on Google maps or sketchup (some are more obvious than others, cookies are available for those able to identify them – although one of them is actually my house). In each case I ported the graphic into illustrator and traced them essentially using the pen tool. I created several gradient fills for the roofs etc. But really this was an easy process just time-consuming.
6.
The forest is a custom pattern I created using the tree symbols. To do this you create a square tile of any size you want. Then populate it with trees, it makes sense to use several different sized and shaped trees for the right look and space them randomly. The real trick here is to make the right edge line up with the left and the top line up with the bottom, that way you get seamless tiling. So fill with trees to close to the edge, then make a separate line of trees and place overlapping the top of your tile, on the bottom side place the same line of trees in exactly the same horizontal position, making sure whatever is outside the tile vertically on the top is within the tile on the bottom and vice versa. Rinse and repeat for the left and right sides. To then create the tile you simply draw a square that fits exactly to the size of the tile, make sure it’s the topmost object then select everything and hit the crop option in the pathfinder palette. This trims everything to the topmost shape and gives you a seamless pattern tile. Now drag this into the pattern pallet and you can use it to fill any shape or path.
7.
To create the text aligned to the roads I simply copied the whole road network layer and pasted on top in a new layer, and removed all the strokes and released the compound path. Then you take the Type on a path tool and add the names to your heart’s content.
8.
Finally the great thing about vectors is you can go back and using the direct selection tool move any single point you want to adjust and realign things. For example as I was adding road names I was tweaking the position of the roads themselves, changing the curve of the river slightly, re-sizing and amending buildings. It’s all fluid which is a joy after working in raster programs like Photoshop. Vectors are great for something like this where you have a lot of detail, of course its very difficult to replicate the graphical effects something like photoshop can perform, but thats the tradeoff for a crisp, clear map you can view at any scale.
If anyone is really interested I can supply some files or some screen grabs to illustrate the above.
"I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
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Joël of the FoS
- Moderator
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- Gender: Male
- Location: St-Damien, Québec
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Gonzoron of the FoS
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 7558
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:02 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
I know from that youtube tutorial you sent me that photoshop does has some support for paths in the newer versions. Is that not sufficient for some reason, or is Illustrator just better at it because it was designed that way from the beginning?lostboy wrote:It’s all fluid which is a joy after working in raster programs like Photoshop. Vectors are great for something like this where you have a lot of detail,
Also, at the risk of giving lostboy a heart attack with a mere thought, this map gave me an idea for a dream project: Ravenloft Google Maps.
(Though to be completely in-character, the window would have to occasionally fill with mist and then open back up in a completely different place. Not very user friendly.
)"We're realistic heroes. We're not here to save the world, just nudge the world into a better place."
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The Giamarga
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 2313
- Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:11 pm
- Location: wandering
Others have already gone even farther than that: Check out Google Oerth (aka Greyhawk)Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Ravenloft Google Maps.
Alas it is only an idea.
(But Anna's GH maps are already apporaching satelite imagery.)
Last edited by The Giamarga on Sat May 22, 2010 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaitou Kage
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 2115
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:53 am
- Location: Here and there
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Illustrator is just better at it. Photoshop is a raster program which means it's based on pixel positions. When you zoom in on something with as much detail as this map, it either gets pixellated or else you have an absurdly huge file.Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:I know from that youtube tutorial you sent me that photoshop does has some support for paths in the newer versions. Is that not sufficient for some reason, or is Illustrator just better at it because it was designed that way from the beginning?lostboy wrote:It’s all fluid which is a joy after working in raster programs like Photoshop. Vectors are great for something like this where you have a lot of detail,
Also, at the risk of giving lostboy a heart attack with a mere thought, this map gave me an idea for a dream project: Ravenloft Google Maps.
(Though to be completely in-character, the window would have to occasionally fill with mist and then open back up in a completely different place. Not very user friendly.
Illustrator uses vectors, which means the whole artwork is created using math instead of pixel placement. When you go to maximum zoom it doesn't pixellate and you can make much, much larger pictures with much, much smaller file sizes. It's why I use Illustrator for almost all my art. It fits my coloring style nicely and it's so much cleaner than Photoshop.
Lostboy, the rundown was VERY helpful. Just a couple of quick questions if you don't mind!
1. How do you capture the original city maps? Can GoogleMaps export a map or do you just take a screenshot?
2. Can you point me to any decent Sketchup resources? I've been wanting to learn but I can't figure it out beyond the basics.
Just about this side of forever.Joël of the FoS wrote:How much time did it took to make this?
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
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NeoTiamat
- Evil Genius
- Posts: 4119
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:00 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Quality takes time. 
Ravenloft GM: Eye of Anubis, Shattered City, and Prof. Lupescu's Traveling Ghost Show
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
Lead Writer & Editor: VRS Files: Doppelgangers; Contributor: QtR #20, #21, #22, #23, #24
Freelance Writer for Paizo Publishing
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Nathan of the FoS
- Fiendish Enforcer
- Posts: 5246
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 3:39 pm
- Location: San Francisco CA
lostboy and I are dueling for the "hugest side project for the campaign" title. I think may still be good for the title, but I fear "most awesome side project" has already slipped from my grasp.Isabella wrote:Just about this side of forever.Joël of the FoS wrote:How much time did it took to make this?
[b]FEAR JUSTICE.[/b] :elena:
Not far off....Isabella wrote:Just about this side of forever.Joël of the FoS wrote:How much time did it took to make this?
Overall I actually don't know (or want to know) but maybe about a 100 hours.And Kage is spot on with the Vector vs Raster point. Although Photoshop does have some vector support you have to use shape layers and the pen tool, which isnt exactly what PS was designed for and is really clunky compared to doing it in Illustrator.
I have also seen Anna's GH maps before, they are done using a 3d renderer called Bryce (link to discussion on it http://forum.cartographersguild.com/sho ... php?t=1363) and do look awesome, I am severly tempted to try something different, so maybe GoogleLoft isnt too far beyond the realms of possibility....
"I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
1. I just push the button that says "Print Screen".... I only use them as a trace aid so I dont need to actually use the data in any way and thats the simplest way of getting an image in. I could use another source but Google Maps is the best for getting scale of just about anything.Kaitou Kage wrote:
Lostboy, the rundown was VERY helpful. Just a couple of quick questions if you don't mind!
1. How do you capture the original city maps? Can GoogleMaps export a map or do you just take a screenshot?
2. Can you point me to any decent Sketchup resources? I've been wanting to learn but I can't figure it out beyond the basics.
2. I'm not really an expert on sketchup either, I normally use it so I can get an overhead shot of a tricky object. Basically open it, manoueveur overhead using the orbit tool, get rid of the axis and screen grab into Illustrator or Ps as you wish. Again Im only using them as trace aids so its doesnt have to be pretty. Im sure if you google it there are plenty of tutorials out there though.
"I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."
The bright sun was extinguish'd, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space..."