Fear, Horror and Madness checks conversion to 5e

[SilentRave]

Hey ya'll. I'm preparing for my upcoming 5e Ravenloft Campaign and I was wondering have you guys ever converted the fear, horror and madness checks to 5e? If so what have you done to implement them in your games? I'm mostly interested in the mechanical aspect of the above checks, as the roleplaying aspect is subject to context and situation, but advice on the latter will be highly appreciated as well.

My target is to preserve the dread aspect of RL, and show my players how the setting is supposed to function properly outside of the kinda bland iteration of CoS, which is the only experience they had with the setting so far.


For one, I'm thinking of implementing the fear check number displayed on classes in the Domains of Dread book, as a situational bonus (spellcasters get said bonus on supernatural related checks, martials get it in gory-practical related checks and so on) that will consist of half their proficiency bonus (rounded up). As of DC calculations, I don't really like the fear and horror fixed table checks and I assume an estimate based on a formula of 8+ a mild, moderate, severe modifier+ situational adv. or dis. would suffice but I'm still not sure. As of Madness checks I'm inclined to let them as they are, high DCs for threatening conditions seem appropriate.

Now, in regards to check modifiers. This is kinda tricky and I find myself baffled as to how I could convert this mechanic properly. I'm thinking that for fear and horror checks, if a relative or party member is threatened this would be a roll with advantage which roughly translates to a +5 in 5e. Same as the -4 penalty it would tranlsate in disadvantage.

So what's your thoughts guys?

[onmyoji]

I've been wanting to do something akin to this for my Pathfinder campaign as well, though they're early in, so I don't have to worry about it quite at the moment.

For me though, I'm more worried about mechanics that might inform roleplay, rather than mechanics to dictate reactions. So in my case, putting everything into a fear/horror check might be enough. So if someone fails the save, I then would ask "what about this is so frightful to you?" and have them illustrate it. If it's in combat, Pathfinder has a frightened condition that lessens each turn. If it's outside of combat, I would probably ask the player for a visceral response to the stimuli and ask the other players how they would respond to their comrade's intense reaction. For me, this is SUBSTANTIALLY more about roleplaying than modifiers and mechanics.

I don't want to derail the 5E aspect of the thread, but I was considering just having the players do will saves for especially frightening/horrific things as necessary, but giving them each a sort of "fear point" that can be cashed like a proverbial "get out of jail free card." (The Pathfinder equivalent of inspiration works exactly like this, except every player starts each session with one and you may not have more than three at any time. If you don't use the free one given each session, it doesn't accumulate. The only ones that accumulate are the ones awarded by the DM, for example for great roleplay or for an exceptionally creative alternative to a problem.) So they'd get one free "I'm not afraid" pass every session, but that's it.

It probably needs more fine-tuning than that, but I'm willing to at least start from there. That should at least help for 5E, as it's not necessarily specific to Pathfinder.

— onmyoji

[SilentRave]

I've been wanting to do something akin to this for my Pathfinder campaign as well, though they're early in, so I don't have to worry about it quite at the moment.

For me though, I'm more worried about mechanics that might inform roleplay, rather than mechanics to dictate reactions. So in my case, putting everything into a fear/horror check might be enough. So if someone fails the save, I then would ask "what about this is so frightful to you?" and have them illustrate it. If it's in combat, Pathfinder has a frightened condition that lessens each turn. If it's outside of combat, I would probably ask the player for a visceral response to the stimuli and ask the other players how they would respond to their comrade's intense reaction. For me, this is SUBSTANTIALLY more about roleplaying than modifiers and mechanics.

I don't want to derail the 5E aspect of the thread, but I was considering just having the players do will saves for especially frightening/horrific things as necessary, but giving them each a sort of "fear point" that can be cashed like a proverbial "get out of jail free card." (The Pathfinder equivalent of inspiration works exactly like this, except every player starts each session with one and you may not have more than three at any time. If you don't use the free one given each session, it doesn't accumulate. The only ones that accumulate are the ones awarded by the DM, for example for great roleplay or for an exceptionally creative alternative to a problem.) So they'd get one free "I'm not afraid" pass every session, but that's it.

It probably needs more fine-tuning than that, but I'm willing to at least start from there. That should at least help for 5E, as it's not necessarily specific to Pathfinder.

— onmyoji

TBH I don't 100% trust 3/4 of my players on their ability to wholly roleplay the checks, but it's not 100% their fault because they never played a game where emotional dread is present. The other one has previously played CoC and does have an idea of how it works, but I don't want to take control of their characters and "force" them into unwanted situations.

I'm thinking of awarding multiple inspirations for this exact reason, as I find the Domains of Dread entries on said checks to be the very essence of the setting. I'm very interested in the idea that at one point, fear-horror checks will be minimal due to players roleplaying the situation. Hence multiple inspirations instead of a limit at 1.

Players do love getting inspirations, let alone multiple ones that can be used against horrifying effects.

[onmyoji]

TBH I don't 100% trust 3/4 of my players on their ability to wholly roleplay the checks, but it's not 100% their fault because they never played a game where emotional dread is present. The other one has previously played CoC and does have an idea of how it works, but I don't want to take control of their characters and "force" them into unwanted situations.

Yeah, that's why I'd take the failed roll and leave it up to the player how they react. But there's a difference between expecting the player to react and the DM asking them "So you failed the roll. How do you react to this? What about it is so frightening to you and why?" and have them come up with something spur-of-the-moment. This can lead to some good improvisation that might help better engage the players as well as work on their backgrounds. "I'm afraid of X because my character had a terrible fear of spiders since she was a kid. She accidentally fell into the basement of an abandoned house, and by the time she was found......" THAT kind of stuff is gold if it comes from the player. They prob. won't be the best at it when starting out, but if you encourage them to lean into it, I'm sure they'll get used to it within a few sessions.

But your last comment above, about not wanting to control the characters and force them into situations—that's precisely why I don't want to rely as much on the mechanics to dictate everything. The fun part about Pathfinder is that failing a DC by 10 means you "critically fail," which nearly always imposes even worse penalties (as a nat 1 often does). So that also has a way of justifying more drastic mechanical penalties as well as prompting more drastic responses from players.

I'm hoping it works that way for me anyway. We'll see.

— onmyoji