Lycanthropic Vrykolaka?

[lordsathien]

Is it legal? And if it is legal I'm guessing that obviously the thing couldn't change forms from the werecreature disease.

[Joël of the FoS]

Normally, when you get the vampire template, your type changes to undead (you are not "humanoid" anymore), and you can't get a lycanthrope template, which can only be on "humanoid" type.

And the reverse situation as well. I guess a lycanthrope killed by a vampire stays dead, or is raised as a vampire and the lycan template is erased, replaced by the vampire.

Joël

[Malus Black]

By the RAW, there's nothing preventing a humanoid lycanthrope from rising as vampire. The lycanthrope is still a humanoid, only with the shapecanger subtype.

[Joël of the FoS]

Yes, this is the SRD:

Adding More Than One Template
In theory, there’s no limit to the number of templates you can add to a creature. To add more than one template, just apply each template one at a time. Always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Whenever you add multiple templates, pay attention to the creature’s type—you may add a template that makes the creature ineligible for other templates you might want to add.

It depends how you interpret it. If you are not careful, you get a half-dragon lycanthropic fey-touched nun troll

[lordsathien]

By the RAW, there's nothing preventing a humanoid lycanthrope from rising as vampire. The lycanthrope is still a humanoid, only with the shapecanger subtype.

So more to the point, my vrykolaka could transmit lycanthropy even if he couldn't necessarily gain all of its benefits himself?

[Bloody Morgan]

That would be one hell of an odd idea, but it has the potential to be very interesting. Vrykolaka feeds from a lycanthrope, can't actually suffer the affliction itself coz it's dead, but can pass it on.

My memory fails me, but do or can Vrykolaka get any dominance over their victims? Plague-ridden werewolf thralls would make for quite a defensive force.

And what could this mean for Wererats, who already put so much stock by the spread of filth & disease anyway? An ignorant Vrykolaka could play havoc with the politics of Richemulot.

[lordsathien]

Well, a vrykolaka can create spawn, so its certainly possible. The reason I asked is I'm running an adventure that starts when a less-than-intelligent vrykolaka used children of the night and wound up summoning a swath of plague moths (from the Kargatane's Book of Shadows, I had to do some updating) that just hangs around and has splintered off into the near-by village.

[Malus Black]

By the RAW, there's nothing preventing a humanoid lycanthrope from rising as vampire. The lycanthrope is still a humanoid, only with the shapecanger subtype.

So more to the point, my vrykolaka could transmit lycanthropy even if he couldn't necessarily gain all of its benefits himself?

That depends entirely on how you view lycanthropy. Some diseases can still be contagious after the host body has died, others can't. While I'm not an expert on diseases, I believe that those that transfer through bodily fluids, like lycanthropy, generally, if not always, fall into the second category (although you should check with someone in the know). Of course, lycanthropy is also part curse, so there's really no way to say for sure. From a purely RAW standpoint, the best you have is the undead immunity to disease.

Also, I believe that an undead lycanthrope should still be able to use all abilities, as long as they don't require a living user. After all, a vampire can change shape anyway, why should it suddenly lose essentially the same ability from a different source? And the ability adjustments and AC bonus are pretty much physical alterations which shouldn't change just because the creature's died and returned.

[lordsathien]

This is really great to get some feedback ont his as I think if I do it right, "Ephram" will remain in my players' memories long after the game ends.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

How does Gaz II treat lycanthropy-transmission, in Slain ghouls or wights? That's probably the closest analogy to stacking a vampire template on a lycanthrope that you'll find in the rules. (I'd look it up myself, but I'm visiting relatives and didn't bring that book with me.)

[HuManBing]

Could somebody please post the "nun" template? I can't find it in my SRD.

[order99]

One of the surest ways to rise as an Undead in Folklore is to have been a Werebeast in life. Conversely, the best way to gain shapechanging skills is to sell your soul for power and/or Black Magic, or just by being so base and ignoble that you get Excommunicated. Folklore tends to have some pretty blurry lines between wicked Sorcerer, ravenous Beast and eternally damned Vampire.

So sure, why not? Hereditary Lycanthropes just add the Undead Template to what they have, the DM trades a weakness and a power or two in for flavor, and Presto! Cursed weres may just arise as Vampire Spawn(with extra HD if the Lycanthrope had more) and an affinity for Summoning the animal they were linked with in life rather than the standard ones. And an evil Wizard, cursed to change every moon and loose his brilliant intellect(rotten Vistani!) who loses a fight with an intrigued Vampire? Major villain territory there...

I still use 2nd ed. Ravenloft when playing though-so mostly I bolt on what feels thematic and cool, and I feel perfectly justified in having no two be completely alike. Strange and unknowable are the Dark Powers.

[lordsathien]

Could somebody please post the "nun" template? I can't find it in my SRD.

I think he meant a nun as in a female cleric.

[Jester of the FoS]

I believe, that since lycanthropes are shapechangers, they loose this ability if they become vampires (which changes their type to undead).

[lordsathien]

I believe, that since lycanthropes are shapechangers, they loose this ability if they become vampires (which changes their type to undead).

While that may true, it doesn't necessarily mean they'd lose the ability to transmit their "dormant" lycanthropy does it?