Gazetteer Metaplot

[Mayhew Donovan]

When I first read the above I thought it read:
"Therefore, a pit fiend (evil) would have a reality wrinkle but a furry (evil, mists) would not"

And I was all 'but furries are SO evil, why would the not have a wrinkle?'

[Anthony Reuland]

And I was all 'but furries are SO evil, why would the not have a wrinkle?'

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that if they have the lame descriptor then they wouldn't have a reality wrinkle... Furries are so lame.

[Viktor Hazan]

About malocchio having reality wrinkle i agree with Malus Black that it is because he is a Dukkar (+ son of a Darklord), and not because he is a half-fiend.

I'm sorry but this sentence surprises me a lot.

Where does this son-of-a-darklord-getting-reality-wrinkle rule comes from? I'm sorry but I don't think it can withstand more serious enquiries - I've never heard anywhere that the children of darklords got reality wrinkle, unless you are refering to an obscure rule?

I'd have to check, but I do not recall Hyskosa having reality wrinkle (or perhaps he was born before this rule was developped).

IMHO, Maloccio got a reality wrinkle because he half-fiend. His descriptor says outsider and evil, that is is fiendish heritage.

Joël

[Jester of the FoS]

It's hard to think of ways to use Mallochio as a rule when he really is an exception to all of them.

[Anthony Reuland]

Maloccio got a reality wrinkle because he half-fiend.

I would also side that the reality wrinkle comes from his half-fiend heritage and not from his vistani heritage (i.e., dukkar). Gazetteer clearly indicates that he is an outsider with the evil descriptor, and I would say that (half-fiend or not) this is why he has a reality wrinkle.

[Jester of the FoS]

Playing the Gwydion's advocate here but, since we have no other Dukkar stats to go on, there is no way of knowing if others have wrinkles or not.

[The Dark One]

That's simple:


the GC is a outsider + the darklord (in a certain degree is too a outsider or a special being, since it is a captured being and focus of the dark powers) + dukkar= special + special + special = special child.


So Malocchio has a reality wrinkle (especial ability) because of this combination, and not because he is a "half fiend".


PS: Of course, the game designer may come and say that the children of the GC have reality wrinkle because of him, but... sounds a little arbitrary

[Malus Black]

All right, I've tried to come to some form of conclusion here. Now, what confused me initially was the sections on half-fiends and the Evil subtype in the SRD. The half-fiend entry says that

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to outsider. Do not recalculate Hit Dice, base attack bonus, or saves. Size is unchanged. Half-fiends are normally native outsiders.

So far, so good, although I wonder if it would really have been too much trouble to write "they also gain alignment subtypes" if this is the case. The section on the Evil subtype, however, was less clear.

Evil Subtype: A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes.

Malocchio may be Ravenloft's own personal antichrist, but he wasn't native to the Outer Planes last time I checked. The other problem is that they use the words "normally" and "usually," neither of which carry very much weight in a setting that emphasizes the uniqueness of NPCs and monsters.

As I (think) I've said before, I don't yet have the 3.5 MM, so I had to make do with the 3.0. Here I finally find something definite, the sample half-fiend has both the Evil and Lawful subtypes. However, I have no idea if this has changed in 3.5. Browsing the web seems to indicate that no, half-outsiders no longer have alignment subtypes. I'm now officially confused.

[Augustus]

Please correct me if my idea is totally wrong but I happen to think that Azalin is chasing the phantoms in his mind so to speak. If the Dark Powers can imprison a being such as Gwydion, weave together an entire land around 1 individuals evil, create life, rip land from the prime material etc. how in the hell could they EVER be caught unawares by one such as Azalin? I've always held the opinion that the Dark Powers were always in complete control, even during the Grand Conjunction.
What better way to torment the Darklords than to momentarily grant them "freedom" as well as clean up house? No, in my humble opinion the Dark Powers are beyond the machinations of lesser beings. Of course one may use Vecna to refute me. He, as with Soth no longer wanted to play the DP's game, so they let him go. Why play with a toy that's not at all fun?

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Indeed, I like Azalin a lot, but the only way for him to screw with the Dark Powers would be to just give up. This, of course, is the one thing that Azalin can never do.

[Seamus]

Indeed, I like Azalin a lot, but the only way for him to screw with the Dark Powers would be to just give up. This, of course, is the one thing that Azalin can never do.

Agreed. Azalin is awesome, but whatever his plans, they're pretty much doomed to failure. If Azalin could ever lower himself to the point of surrender as Soth did, he'd only be doing it to further his goal, which isn't really giving up at all.
Azalin's failure is mostly why I started this thread. I want to know just what he's planning so I know how the resulting catastrophe will alter the Land of Mists.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Evil Subtype: A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes.

Malocchio may be Ravenloft's own personal antichrist, but he wasn't native to the Outer Planes last time I checked.

While Ravenloft is technically not an Outer Plane, it may be similar enough to the Outer Planes in that its physical structure, metaphysics, and so forth can be directly controlled by the resident (pseudo-)deities, the Dark Powers. The actual location of the plane in question -- a dubious issue to begin with; in some respects, the "Great Wheel" concept is only an analogy -- may be less important, in determining possible subtypes of outsiders, than the plane's traits. That might explain how Malocchio can qualify for the [Evil] subtype: he's a native-born outsider of an evil-aligned, divinely-morphic plane.

Does that mean every cambion in Ravenloft will have the [Evil] subtype and a reality wrinkle? Probably not; Alexi Shadowborn seems to have escaped that fate, so Ravenloft's morphic trait -- or its Evil-aligned trait for that matter; nasty though the Land of Mists can be, it's not quite so bad as the Abyss -- may be weaker than the true Lower Planes', allowing some fiend-sired individuals to take after their mothers in this respect. Or this might be where Gabrielle's own status comes into the picture: gestating in a darklord's body -- a focal point for Ravenloft's divinely-morphic trait, since Gabrielle's own personality is what guides the DPs in shaping Invidia -- might've saturated unborn Malocchio with even stronger planar influences than other half-fiends, thus pushing him over a threshold to qualify for the subtype.

I wonder if the Gentleman Caller knew that would happen...? Was siring Malocchio in the first place routine troublemaking, or politics ... or was it an experiment on the GC's part? What of his possible plans for the other female darklords, if he's pleased with the outcome?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that if they have the lame descriptor then they wouldn't have a reality wrinkle... Furries are so lame.

So if a half-fiend flumph from the Lower Planes (Outsider [Evil, Lame]) came to Ravenloft, it wouldn't get a reality wrinkle...?

[Joël of the FoS]

Interesting way to merge things, Rotipher.

However

Does that mean every cambion in Ravenloft will have the [Evil] subtype and a reality wrinkle?

Another thought I had - I checked on CotN-Demon because I remembered a half fiend was included: Kraxzat. He is a Male Half-human/half-fiend Sor6 born in Ravenloft from a human mother and unknown fiend father.

He is described as Medium-sized Outsider (chaotic, evil).

So again I believe the original designer's intention were that half-fiend still got their descriptor as outsiders because of their demonic parent.

Joël

[The Dark One]

I start believing that this "reality wrinkle" and "half fiend" issue is one of the troubles that wasn't planned by the authors.... beside it would make the Darklord power to close borders a really joke...

And how in the hells Malocchio could be a "native outsider"? It is far more plausible that he is a special being, son of two special beings.


At all, this Gentleman Caller + family focused demiplane issues are starting to make me sick.... an entire setting depending on one being and his children.... doesn't make sense (for me).