Quoth the Raven #32 Reaction Thread

[IanFordam]

THE CHILDREN OF THE CORN

And now that we have arrived at one of the lesser known horror movie franchises, Stephen King's Children of the Corn, I finally see the wisdom in M.T. Kelly's penchant for meticulously reciting the summaries for each movie in the series that he explores. I consider myself to be a horror movie aficia... aficio... fan but have only ever seen the first movie in this octet. (Which is probably a good thing for my sanity.)

There's a lot of elements here that I really like.

thank goodness…er…eviln…er…DARKness. I was beginning to think nobody liked it.

I did like it, a lot.

Similarly, to all of the authors whose articles I haven't reviewed yet: Lately I've had limited time and very little brain to brain with. Please don't take my silence as any sort of negative feedback.

[Speedwagon]

^ Likewise! Though I should have some time in the upcoming days. I once again thank you all for contributing so much for this year!

[Baron Von Stanton]

Lately I've had limited time and very little brain to brain with.

"A mad scientist enters his kitchen to have breakfast, and as he sits down to his breakfast of blood sausage and cinnamon roll, his wife tells him, 'Oh, honey, I almost forgot, your patient for the brain transplant this afternoon called and said he wanted to cancel.' 'Did he say why?' 'Yes, he said he changed his mind.' 'But that was the whole point!'"

[Manofevil]

[IanFordam]

Buh DUM tsss!

[IanFordam]

"Curse of Captain Garvyn ", by Ian Fordam.

This short story, told by a crew member of the ship once known as the Endurance... Well, it nearly brought a tear to my eye. I feel better for having read it. While it's sad, it also shows defiance in the face of terrible evil. Good on Captain Garvyn for reclaiming the souls of his crew, and bad cess to Meredoth!

Mistipedia asserted that Captain Garvyn and his crew were cursed not for grave robbing but because they refused to deliver corpses to Meredoth. I decided I had to set the record straight.

(However, note that p.12 of Ship of Horror does assert that the curse is a result of both grave robbing and not giving a proper burial to the three corpses which get dumped overboard. Mistipedia has been updated accordingly.)

I'm pleased to hear that you found it moving.

"Righteous Rulership," by Ian Fordam.

A well-crafted tale of lingering evil and obsession, but also of duty and courage - and of some measure of acceptance.
I find myself a little feeling sorry for Mishev. In the end, his willpower proved to not be up to the challenge he had taken up. 'Fru' Sarah, however, is a wonderful protagonist. She is steadfast in her faith and her duty.
I liked how much of the material outlined in the Nocturnal Sea Gazetteer found its way into this article very much. Seeing Jean-Marcel l'Voy sent a cold shiver down my spine, even if he isn't an active antagonist. Small hints - the stench of his abode, the paleness of his skin - added to the aforementioned cold shiver, not to mention his contacting his Master about Sarah at the end.
... I hope she survives the winter unchanged.

Righteous Rulership by Ian Fordham was my favorite article in this edition. I say that after first being put off by what a caricature Dmitrov seemed to me in the beginning--but then I realized he had been expertly written as a true believer, the most devout follower of a faith that insisted he behave this way; I saw the deeper character portrayed by Sarah Verber would have actually been out of character for Dmitrov. thought I saw her wear the Vassan down a bit during his recovery and investigation of Kirchenheim, but once he got on the scent of the artifact, he was unyielding. One of my favorite exchanges was where he flatly asks "What's empathy?" Unironic and genuinely unfamiliar with the concept thanks to his religion/culture, it felt rather haunting. Are the followers of the Lawgiver wicked, or are they simply not trained to recognize goodness as we understand it? As someone who revels in worldbuilding, the Vaasi idiom of "Ride a day on another man's horse" was something I really appreciated.

Dmitrov Mishnev is the antagonist of much of the story, but I would not say he is a villain. At no point does he intend harm to anyone in Kirchenheim. So, yes, I have to admit to feeling a certain amount of sympathy for him too.

It is always gratifying to learn when character work that I've attempted was actually effective. Thank you both!

"Hot Time in a Cold Place ," by Ian Fordam.

A fine adventure to insert in a long-term campaign, especially if your party has wound up in Nebligtode. I could see PCs gaining some grudging respect from the dour Grabenites by helping them weed out the villains of the plot. Now if only they'll resist the urge to add the adventure's magic item to their toolbox...
One of the things I liked best about this adventure is how recognizable the motivations behind the villains' actions are. Not that I appreciate that motivation, but it is very realistic; people refusing to move and adapt with the times, lashing out at what they see as an attack on their way of life. The concerns of the tale - livelihoods, "the people we know", home and hearth - resonate with me more strongly than some grand quest for honour and glory might, which is entirely in keeping with Grabenite down-to-earth culture. The adventure's supernatural elements do not detract from this, but reinforce the alien quality of the evil brought down upon Graben Island.

I generally prefer personal-scale adventures to grand quests. And I still use 2e rules. Wait, does this mean I'm a secret Grabenite?

HOT TIME IN A COLD PLACE

This is a nice, simple adventure that nevertheless serves as a good introduction to Graben Island and its environs. It has a classic murder mystery feel that reminds me of 2E modules like Hour of the Knife or Howls in the Night. I would have liked to have seen a few more red herrings to keep PCs busy during the day and between attacks, but that's about the only criticism I have.

Agreed about the red herrings, but Morthur Thjostolfssen was the closest I came. Do you have any suggestions?

=========================================================================

Rock, Strahdsbuddy, Jeremy16: Very seriously, thank you all for reading and reviewing.

[IanFordam]

For those who have drawn the Tolkien comparisons in my Darkon's History Explored, just know that I was cognizant of the risk and hope that while I approached it with the same mythic structure as Tolkien's First Age, I was hoping to imitate rather than outright mimic him. Once I got to the arrival of Darcalus, the tone changed so much that I knew it would need to be its own article, so thank you for indulging me to continue next year.

Given that you're working with elves and dwarves here, I suspect that comparisons to Tolkien are inevitable. However, I think the article does a fine job of developing its subject along pathways separate from that source. The Kuduk in particular are not merely a renaming of hobbits, which I appreciate.

I enjoyed the many linguistic notes sprinkled throughout the article. My favorite sentence of the entire piece is the one which ends, "... for to them discovery was like a joke finally understood."

Strahdsbuddy, I'm glad you wrote this expansion. Looking forward to next year's installment!

[Baron Von Stanton]

Righteous Rulership by Ian Fordham was my favorite article in this edition. I say that after first being put off by what a caricature Dmitrov seemed to me in the beginning--but then I realized he had been expertly written as a true believer, the most devout follower of a faith that insisted he behave this way; I saw the deeper character portrayed by Sarah Verber would have actually been out of character for Dmitrov. thought I saw her wear the Vassan down a bit during his recovery and investigation of Kirchenheim, but once he got on the scent of the artifact, he was unyielding. One of my favorite exchanges was where he flatly asks "What's empathy?" Unironic and genuinely unfamiliar with the concept thanks to his religion/culture, it felt rather haunting. Are the followers of the Lawgiver wicked, or are they simply not trained to recognize goodness as we understand it? As someone who revels in worldbuilding, the Vaasi idiom of "Ride a day on another man's horse" was something I really appreciated.

Dmitrov Mishnev is the antagonist of much of the story, but I would not say he is a villain. At no point does he intend harm to anyone in Kirchenheim. So, yes, I have to admit to feeling a certain amount of sympathy for him too.

It is always gratifying to learn when character work that I've attempted was actually effective. Thank you both!

The term you're looking for would be "anti-villain," an antagonist who opposes the protagonist for reasons that are unselfish, or at least, non-malicious or non-pernicious.

[IanFordam]

The term you're looking for would be "anti-villain," an antagonist who opposes the protagonist for reasons that are unselfish, or at least, non-malicious or non-pernicious.

I have not heard that term before! Thanks for introducing me to it.

[Baron Von Stanton]

The term you're looking for would be "anti-villain," an antagonist who opposes the protagonist for reasons that are unselfish, or at least, non-malicious or non-pernicious.

I have not heard that term before! Thanks for introducing me to it.

The anti-villain is very similar to the sympathetic villain, and they differ in that the former retains a morally upright motive or goal, whereas the latter is an antagonist who remains sympathetic despite having malicious or pernicious goals and motives. Like, a paladin hunting down the criminal protagonist, versus the mourning witch seeking to share her agony of losing her deceased familiar.

[Tonitrus]

The anti-villain is very similar to the sympathetic villain, and they differ in that the former retains a morally upright motive or goal, whereas the latter is an antagonist who remains sympathetic despite having malicious or pernicious goals and motives. Like, a paladin hunting down the criminal protagonist, versus the mourning witch seeking to share her agony of losing her deceased familiar.

I'm a big fan of anti-villains. If anything I tend to make too many of my villains some degree of anti-villain. I discovered the term by accident as a result of this tendency.

People use the term anti-villain a bunch of different ways. As far as I can tell, the anti-villain is just like the anti-hero. The anti-hero is the hero of the story, despite having traits not typically associated with heroism. The anti-villain is the villain of the story despite having traits not associated with villainy. An anti-villain might implement a noble goal ruthlessly, or might implement malicious or self-serving goals with a high-degree of honor or fair play. Just like there's a lot of different ways to be an anti-hero, there's a lot of different ways to be an anti-villain.

Both categories are pretty fuzzy. It can be hard to distinguish heroes from anti-heroes, villains from anti-villains, and anti-heroes and anti-villains from one another. If you don't know who the antagonist and protagonist are, anti-heroes and anti-villains can be hard to tell apart.

In general I'd say a villain with clearly malicious goals is less likely to be seen as an anti-villain, but I don't think it's a hard rule. The mourning witch seems clearly villainous, but it can get messy if we add details. If we say she wants everyone to suffer as she has suffered out of spite, that's clearly villainous, but if she's specifically targeting the cruel to punish cruelty, or if she's specifically targeting those who have never experienced loss so that they can understand it, or if she thinks that pain makes people stronger and wants to strengthen society... maybe? For my own completely-subjective metric, I'd say that I'm most likely to view a villain as an anti-villain if they're trying to build something and they place value in things greater than themselves. Someone who wants to take over a business/country/whatever for purely selfish reasons, but believes in honor and will make honor a part of the new regime could be an anti-villain. Still, there are no firm rules. I have a villain who is a vampire who tries to take over everything. She has a strong sense of fair play, but I don't consider her an anti-villain. I think it's because her sense of fair play seems more like an idiosyncratic quirk than something she tries to promote in the world. She'll follow it, possibly even to her own detriment, but I don't see her putting that much effort into making sure that anyone else follows it.

And now I'm starting to argue with myself, so I should probably leave it at that!

[Tonitrus]

Contradictions and Mysteries
I didn't make that many notes here, but I will share the things I wrote down:

• Nice to see some ambiguous gods, the whole "good god" and "evil god" aspect of DND theology has annoyed me for some time.

• I really like the priesthood of Tvastri and their rituals, and the way they've sort of ritualized what would normally be considered secular activities. D&D tends to take a very particular, very idiosyncratic approach to deities, and it's nice to see things breaking from that mold. I'm not aware of a real-world analogue to the priesthood of Tvastri but would have no trouble believing that such a group existed.

I don't have a good description for how I decide what to write down and what not to write down. The best I can think of is that I write down things that I think would be useful to relay if and when I think to do so. There are probably other comments I could have made if I had thought to do so. There might have been some thoughts I had that seemed too subjective or idiosyncratic to be worth mentioning. I can't remember!

Collodi, Land of Puppets and Fables
Not sure how I feel about "Collodian" as a language, but I'm also not sure how I feel about so many Islands of Terror having no established language... and I completely missed the "Borders" bit that places this firmly into the Core, thinking this was an Island of Terror. In that case, I think Collodian makes a lot more sense for a Core domain, although I'm also skeptical about placing things in the Core, as a rule. It's probably because they don't show up on my maps, if I'm honest. I don't mind Ustalav, which might be because I've seen it on a map. Well, and the fact that the Shadow Rift is weird to have on the map anyway. Especially since you can't get there the way that is shown on the map. I use maps as a visual reference so often that I tend to forget anything that's supposed to be in the Core that I don't have a map for.

I'm surprised we haven't seen a place named Hala's Wood before. It seems obvious that there should be one somewhere.

As a language nerd I love the v2 phrasing of "it reaches the mountain on the northern border, where live the Elves"

Nice to see a Church of Andaral. I wanted to do something with Andral in my article, but I think there's only the subtlest of references.

What are sidhe elves and mist elves?

I love the note on marionetta/marionette. My interest in languages might make me biased, but I feel like notes like this make the world seem larger and more lived in.

I've been seeing history in ages like this article has (Creation, Empires, Darkness, etc.). I must confess to finding the ages a bit strange. They seem to me to be a reference to something else as they often seem to have recurring elements. I always feel like I'm missing something when I read sections like this, and they generally feel like alternate history.

It seems odd to have a Palace of the 400 and a Hall of the 50. Often-repeated numbers tend to be small, likely for linguistic efficiency. The Palace of the 400 is 8 syllables, but "Parliament" is 3, at least how I say it. Parliament Building or Parliament Palace are both 5 syllables. Likewise "Hall of the 50" is 6 syllables, but "city council" is 4, and "council building" is 4. Either of these work as official names, but I don't feel like most people would say them. And if most people wouldn't say them, then it means that the official names would have been declared by officials without regard for what people actually say. This certainly happens, but it feels like a newer name. This could be because the buildings are new or because the buildings have been officially renamed.

I like combining the Morninglord and Andral in "Andaral the Morning Lord". This is very much the kind of conflation you'd expect in actual religions. The reference to the Church of Andaral in Barovia makes me feel like I'm missing some alternate history or something.

Why do Culsans, Satre, and Turms have two colors in their names? Turms is the son of Tin and Uni, both light gods according to their colors, so it doesn't seem to be an ancestry thing.

I'm really thrown by the height of these marionettes. According to cursory research, 10 year olds range from about 4'2" to 4'11". I don't know why I have a sense for how tall sentient marionnettes should be, but my mental image is, at most, about half the height mentioned in this article. Brief and lazy research into marionettes seems to show variation, but closer in line to what I would have imagined. I find this really jarring, and simply can't imagine a marionnete of this size, particularly a sentient one.

I notice that the Marionette entry in Character Options lists them as being around 3 feet tall, which is 1 to 2 feet shorter than I'd expect a 10 year old to be.

I love the Miracle Field Dread Possibility.

[Mistmaster]

First of all thanks for the review.
To answer your questions: Collod is heavly based on Tuscany, and the Palace of the 400 is based on the Hall of 500 in Florence. All my articles are set in the same alternate universe called the Mistworld with a common history classified in ages. Each nation classify the current age beginning differently and it is tied to their Darklord. Generally I detail every thing I invent in an article unless I detailed it elsewhere. I have started writing up the Mistworld in QtR 23. All those issues up to this one includes at least one of my articles. Sidhe Elves and Mist Elves are two subraces of elves I have invented. You should find them in QtR 30 in the Tepest article if I recall that correctly. About the Cluskan Deities, those who are tied to both underworld and living world are signaled with both colors. About Marionette height, the ones created by Geppetto are taller then average.

[IanFordam]

"A Show of Strenght ," by Ian Fordam.

A fun little tale of greed, cleverness and intrigue.
In my humble opinion, the story would have benefited from a glossary of terms. I can deduce some of the Rajian words from context, but it'd be nice to be sure. ^_^ Of course I still have more of the Rajian trilogy to read at this point, so I may find out later in.
Another thing the story might have benefited from is, simply, more story. The tale was over so soon, I only barely got into it before it was already over. Hollie Armstrong is cunning and clever, but she solved the mystery so very quickly...

Assuming that you have read "Beneath the Heels" and "Contradictions and Mysteries" by now, do you still feel a glossary for "Show of Strength" as well?

My intention was to demonstrate Armstrong's competence, but yes, I can see where that undercuts the narrative tension.

"Beneath the Heels of the Dancing Goddess," by Ian Fordam & Adam “Speedwagon” El Akkad, with Jeremy Roby.

I have to admit, I felt uncomfortable when reading that there are red pandas in the Baans ka Jangal. I love red pandas, and the thought of them being in a Rajian jungle, in the Demiplane of Dread, is ... disturbing. I know, I know, not gothic horror in action... but I really do love red pandas. ^^;

We promise that no red pandas were harmed in the writing of this article. Not a one!

[IanFordam]

Contradictions and Mysteries
I didn't make that many notes here, but I will share the things I wrote down:

• Nice to see some ambiguous gods, the whole "good god" and "evil god" aspect of DND theology has annoyed me for some time.

Same here. There's a place for mighty clashes between the Forces of Good and the Forces of Evil, but there ARE other possibilities.

Basically, the entire Sri Raji trilogy got written because I couldn't let stand Web of Illusion's assertion that Siva was an evil goddess while my real-life Shaivite friends worship him as a benevolent god. (Oh, and because Jeremy16 wondered about the moon in Sri Raji, but never mind that.)

• I really like the priesthood of Tvastri and their rituals, and the way they've sort of ritualized what would normally be considered secular activities. D&D tends to take a very particular, very idiosyncratic approach to deities, and it's nice to see things breaking from that mold. I'm not aware of a real-world analogue to the priesthood of Tvastri but would have no trouble believing that such a group existed.

I'm also not aware of a real-world analogue. I just took what was asserted in canon and extrapolated from there.

I don't have a good description for how I decide what to write down and what not to write down. The best I can think of is that I write down things that I think would be useful to relay if and when I think to do so. There are probably other comments I could have made if I had thought to do so. There might have been some thoughts I had that seemed too subjective or idiosyncratic to be worth mentioning. I can't remember!

Truthfully, Tonitrus, I will happily take scattered bullet points over no response at all. If this is the approach which works for you, then run with it! Thank you for reading, and thank you for reviewing.