Tolkien Fossils Thread

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Tolkien Fossils Thread

Post by TheArcaneWeirdo »

Hi y'all! I'm Daphna-Shmuel Cohen, AKA Dash, AKA The Arcane Weirdo - a neurodivergent, Jewish 12th grader who thinks ey are good at storytelling - and in this thread I'm going to talk about what I call 'Tolkein fossils' in D&D lore.

The 'generic epic fantasy' tropes that form the (heavily expanded upon) base of the Dungeons and Dragons worldbuilding actually have a century long history - half a century of development by J.R.R. Tolkien, father of the modern fantasy genre, and another half century of development by other authors and by the creators of D&D itself. (I'm pretty acurrate on the timeline here - Tolkien started The Silmarillion in 1918 and died in 1973, current year is 2025). Of course Tolkien himself was heavily inspired by earlier folklore and mythology, but I think much of what we consider nowadays 'classic fantasy/dnd' was directly popularized (if not invented) by him. Many of us prefer newer media and aren't familliar with the source of these tropes, but they live on in much of that media.

Now, I have the opposite problem - I don't know as much as I'd like to about the later half-century. I got into geekness from 21th century middlegrade books like HP and PJO, than went straight to the classics (Tolkien and Le Guin) - I'm still trying to catch up on everything in between. I quit the Dragonlance novels mid-series because the translation to my native language is a mess, a few months of occasionally doomscrolling the Forgotten Realms wiki can't really replace a lifetime of gaming, I'm currently frantically browsing the Van Richten Guides and the Doomsday Gazetteers quarrying lore pieces that will make my Ravenloft fanfics look like I know what I'm doing, and I honestly have no idea WTF is Ebberon.
But I do know a lot about Tolkien.
How much do I know about Tolkien?
I've been in the fandom since I was 8 (I'm just 18 so not that impressive, but still).
I actually managed to read The Silmarillion cover to cover. And Unfinished Tales. And the Great Tales trio.
I did three school projects about Tolkien - and I'm not talking about a 'book report'. I'm talking about a series of five videos analysing Tom Bombadil in 8th grade, an academical article about Tolkien's conlangs in 9th grade, and a mass I'm very proud of presenting my theory about 'The Three Paradigms of Fantasy Worldbuilding' in 11th - all of which required me to dive deep into both Middle Earth lore and Tolkien's real life. (Yes, my English teachers are amazing.)
So I often see experienced roleplayers who undoubtably can teach me about D&D lore being puzzled by details I perfectly understand, cause they come from the Middle Earth legendarium - where they have a very specific and logical reason - and just outlived it.
Fossil tropes.
So I was thinking about explaining this in a more organised way than stopping my DM mid sentence and saying 'Well, actually...'
Here, I'm going to...
1) Describe the trope the post is about.
2) Explain its Middle Earth origin.
3) Give my two cents about why, IMHO, this trope lingers (other than 'because that's what we know') and whether it should.

Like and subscribe or whatever. :lol:
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

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The Five Token Adventuring Party


You know how a D&D party can't just be all humans, or all dwarves, or all ooze Genasi?
It has to be one or two characters from each race, otherwise it would be boring?
That's the Five Token Adventuring Party!

Why do I call it that?
Well, the Five-Man Band is a theory according to which there are 5 roles or archetypes that repeat themselves in almost every 5-characters' fictional team: The Hero, The Lancer, The Brain, The Brawn & The Heart. It's actually pretty valid, google it.
The Five Token Band is when each role is filled by a character from a different minority (usually with The Hero still being an ordinary white boy) in a well intentioned but often cliche and cringy attempt for represantation.
The Five Token Adventuring Party is an adventuring party that would be the fantasy equivalent of a Five Token Band: The archetypes are each filled by a character from a very race and class.
I feel like most D&D parties - at least those meant for full campaigns rather than experimental one-shots - are somewhere around this.
Why?


The Origin
I chose to start with this one because it's the easiest to explain: The Fellowship of the Ring.
Yeah, the Fellowship is a lot more than five men, but let me explain:
We have
- Aragorn (human with some elvish blood) as The Hero
- Boromir (human) as The Lancer
- Gandalf (Maia - basically Midde-Earth angel?) as The Brain
- Gimli (dwarf) as The Brawn
- Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin (hobbits) all acting as The Heart
And Legolas (elf) as Gimli's romantic interest* :lol:

I'm not saying every D&D party has these exact races in these exact roles, but a human or two, an elf, a dwarf, a 'little guy' (halfling, gnome or kender) and a wizard (yeah, I know it's a class and not a race, but the visual difference between a human wizard and a human from a martial class is often so pronounced that artistically it has the same weight) is a classic build - And I've never seen a party where more than two characters had the same race.

Reason For the Origin
The Fellowship of the Ring's unusual diversity was caused by a combination of coincidence and intention.
Boromir, Gimli and Legolas all happened to come to Elrond for separate but related reasons at the same time when Aragorn and the hobbits arrived on Gandalf's request.
But why were they all picked?
Cause Elrond literally wanted the party to be ethnically diverse.
In his mind, the Fellowship having representatives of all free peoples of Middle Earth would clarify that their mission is one relevant for all of Middle-Earth. We're trying to save the world here, and - to paraphrase the superhero joke - 'the world' isn't just America! This was valuable both symbolically and practically: Representives of all races means the leaders of almost every nation the Fellowship encounters has someone they feel entitled to assist, which (though it absolutely didn't go as smoothly as planned, with
VIEW CONTENT:
Moria being ruined and empty, Boromir dying and Denethor being a jerk
) made it a lot easier for them to gain allies.

Why Does It Linger?
The Five Token Adventuring Party has multiple reasons for staying incredibly popular in D&D.
Here is a probably non-exhaustive list:
- The original reason: A quest for saving the word should - both symbolically and practically - be accomplished through world-spanning colaboration. It just makes sense, and I actually wish it was translated more often to urban fantasy or superhero setttings, with heroes from multiple countries working together. It makes a lot more sense than the supervillain planning to take over the world always somehow starting with the USA.
- Tactical considerations. Mechanically, diverse races and classes mean diverse abilities, which means a party where every character has different strengths and weaknesses, meaning a party that together can overcome diverse challenges. A diverse party is objectively stronger than a uniformed one of the same level - I think this is the main reason why it has become the standard in TTRPG, where people usually want to win the game.
- Worldbuilding exposure. What better way is there to quickly explain most of your fantasy world's creatures and cultures than having each character demonstrating theirs?
- Quick characterisation. You want your character to be distinct, don't you? If every character looks completely different than the others, it's a lot easier to tell which is which.
- Individuality. In a story told mutually by multiple players, one's own character is their personal space, the place where they can go wild. Limiting the options for races and classes makes it harder to make your halfling ranger not like the other four halfling rangers.

Should It Linger?
Generally, yes.
The Five Token Adventuring Party has plenty of good reasons for its popularity, as listed above. Also, I think it normalises diversity and inclusivity IRL without 'shoving it down your throat' like its realistic equivalent often does.
However, I'd recommend to occasionally stray from the classic build. There are plenty of cool fantasy races other than elves and dwarves that deserve representation too, and we don't really always need a token human (like the real-life equivalent annoys me because it still assumes we need a white boy as The Hero for 'normal' kids to relate).
Also, an all-dwarves, all-gnomes or all-dragonborn party, for example, can be a cool opportunity to explore more extensively that one particular fictional culture rather than merely 'represent' it. I really want to do this some day.
Some races which would otherwise be awesome also fit less in a FTAP setting mechanics-wise. For example, an all-aarakokra party would solve the 'it's unfair that only this character can fly in level 1' problem, and an all-vampire party would solve the schedule issues.

Another thing to consider is that the FTAP is an epic fantasy trope.
It's meant very specifically for a story about a bunch of noble (at least on the inside - on the outside they can obviously be silly menaces) though unlikely heroes saving their entire country, continent or world from an overwhelming but ultimatly defeatable threat.
It doens't necessarily work for any other type of story.
I think that the main reason for why cosmic horror, for example, doens't work in D&D: Unlike epic fantasy where the heroes are supposed to find power in diversity, cosmic horror is built on the concept that the foreign and unknown is terrifying. Yes, that's because it was made up by a dude so bigoted he was scared of Italians.
But that's why it works! That's why it gives you nightmares! If your party members have already accepted major cultural and biological differences between themselves, overcoming any prejudices they might have had and forming strong bonds with the 'foreign and unknown' types, they're gonna be too used to the weirdness to actually be affected by some tentacled guy. When you finally pit them against some eldritch horror, they're not going to see the difference between it and any other villain.
It extends to other horror subgenres too. I had the same dissonance when reading the psychology section of 'Van Richten's Guide to the Created'** - I simply couldn't fathom why the dread flesh golem is so dreadful. He was like
However, should the creature confront a person other than the creator - and discover the horror and disgust with which a sane person inevitably views the golem - then the creature may quickly enter the second phase of development: confusion.
And I was like "Inevitably? Any sane person?! Guess I'm insane? Cause I've seen weirder-looking creatures as player characters! Gosh, I've seen weirder-looking people as players!"
I'd have dismissed on-spot the claim that the dread golem is inherently evil, considering it Van Richten's in-world prejudice, had it not already been established earlier in the same text that he 1) Has great empathy for both the golems and their creators but still prioritises preventing the potential - and in his POV inevitable - harm to innocents 2) Is aware of how severe are the philosophical and societal consequences of defining a creature as inherently evil from birth, and 3) Absolutely would befriend someone from a group he's extremely prejuiced against if he considers them worthy of making an exception. I still think that the dread golem's villain arc can be prevented by the early intervention of a therapist or even just support from a parental figure more competent than the creator.
And that's wonderful if you want to play with a horror trope. Make your woobie dread golem that just needs a hug if that's your fantasy. If you want this as a PC origin story, you can use the stats of a Reborn from VRGtR.
But if you want to play it straight?
If you want your characters to be genuinely horrified by a creature being the creature it is?
A FTAP kinda ruins that.
Cause diversity is destructive to horror for the same reason it's so beneficial IRL: When you know and accept different people, you stop being afraid of them.
I see a lot of people complaining about how Ravenloft is too humancentric, but that's the point.
Epic fantasy celebrates differences; Horror demonizes them as a narrative tool. It's like the difference between aliens in Star Trek and aliens in almost every other alien movie.
To be clear, I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't make Ravenloft or the horror genre in general inclusive. I'm in for it. One of the fanfics I'm currently writing has a ghost as the main lead and the other is about a disabled gay elf. But it poses a challenge, to create monsters abominable enough to shock a party that usually accepts everyone - and maybe a better approach would be to abandon the FTAP in favor of the all-ranger-halfling party I jokingly suggested early on: What is a halfling community scared of that a human community maybe wouldn't? An elf community? A tabaxi community? Now that's a good writing exrecise...


*I ship Gimlegolas because my queer teenage brain read them that way. I havn't the slightest idea whether or not Tolkien intended them to be gay-coded, but that's my personal headcanon. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm to mine. Anyway they're an amazing duo - I just don't know what role Legolas is filling in the fellowship's dynamic other than his enemies-to-lovers arc with Gimli.
**Looking back, I think we collectively went through the same process with witches. Outside of the geek community - aka in the fairy tales most people grow up hearing - 'witch' is almost synonymous with 'evil old woman'. Inside the geek community, on the other hand, we have gotten so used to good witches, it had become a neutral term for a magic-user (sometimes for a female magic-user, other times for a specific magical proffession). As a toddler, I'd be terrified by a witch; by the time I started 3d grade, I wanted to be one.
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

Post by TheArcaneWeirdo »

So what is a halfling community scared of?

To answer this, I have to analyze two things:
1) What I know about halflings/hobbits in general
2) The conditions of a halfling community in a specific domain.

Halfings are small.
They're surrounded by species taller and stronger than they are, and have to survive somehow. Most of them are terrified by the big world and prefer to stick to their peaceful, sheltered villages. Those who aren't, on the other hand - those who choose or are forced to travel - have to make up for their size with guile, charisma and luck, and often become the most badass adventurers you've ever seen. They are the only halflings you'll ever see represented, because the other sort rarely leaves their hometown - But most halflings are the other sort. Most halflings are small people living small lives, and deep down they know how insignificant they seem to the other races, and desparately try to deny this.
Insignificance.
This makes them the perfect candidates for cosmic horror.

Also, the halflings' short stature, slender fingers and hairy feet make them extremely stealthy - which implies they could easily steal something.
Again, most halflings are model citizens.
Most of them are just trying to live their lives at peace.
But it's enough for one fool-of-a-Took to try their luck with thievery for everyone to get that idea.
This is actually a Tolkien Fossil on its own: The Halfling Thief.
Bilbo becomes this almost by accident. Gandalf wants him to join the dwarves for his hobbitish stealth, which makes the dwarves think he's some kind of a burglar - which he isn't. But over the course of the adventure he unintentionally acts as this, always stumbling the item required by the plot, always unnoticed, and always taking it without permission. He doesn't realise he'd become a thief, but he is. And that's how the fantasy genre will remember him - and his entire kind - for all eternity.
Seriously.
Look up pre-made character sheets.
What do you see?
An elf ranger, a human paladin, a half-orc barbarian, a tiefling warlock, a dwarf cleric... And a halfling rouge.
Dragonlance took this to the next level by creating the kenders, halfling-like creatures who are uniformly cleptomaniac.
The stereotype is this strong!
Now, consider the in-world consequence of a race so commonly stigmatized as thieves with little-to-no justification. One who's also physically weak in comparision.
It means police brutality.
It means collective trauma from police brutality.
It means absolute distrust in the police and the authorities in general.
Which is a terrifying mindset to live in.
If a monster is terrorizing a halfling district in a mainly-human city, they wouldn't dare to call the city guard, cause the city gaurd is made out of racist humans who think they 'fit the profile' or whatever and would potentially be as dangerous as the monster.

So.
Cosmic horror, and distrust in the local law enforcement.
How could we make it worse?
Halflings are, according to Mistipedia, 4% of the Hazlani population - the largest demihuman population there, but still a tiny minority. Hazlan seems extremely tyrranical even for Ravenloft, and the state religion (Chruch of the Lawgiver) is human-supermascist.
Hazlan is also home to many abberrations, as result of both Hazlik's experiments and the domain's proximity to Bluestpur prior to the Grand Conjuction, making it perfect for unexpected Lovecraft.

Let's build it.
You're halflings living in a hamlet next to Mistmoss River. You are not Bilbo expies. You are ordinary folks, farmers and family men. You've never held a sword in your entire lives.
But when a chuul rises from the water, you know there's no one to call to. You know the only one who can protect your children is yourselves. If you fail, they're good as dead. So you bring the pitchforks and gather around and fight, fight, fight... And eventually maybe you defeat that horrible monster.
But if you do, that's only the least of your troubles.
You see, the mindflayers want their pet back, and if they find out you killed him... Well, assimilating a couple hundreds of hosts sounds just as good.
Only that you don't see it. You don't realise it, cause you have no idea what a mindflayer is. You just see these horrible octupus people (do you even know what an octopus is?) starting to kidnap your neighboors, and you don't know why, why do these freaks rather have you enslaved than free and happy, why can't they leave you alone... And you still know you can't call anyone, cause no one will believe a bunch of 'thieves'... You'd have to solve it yourselves - but how can you? You're small and frail and so insignificant to this huge, unknowable empire!

And that's, my friends, how you do non-humancentric Ravenloft.
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

Post by TheArcaneWeirdo »

What is an elf community scared of?

Let's think about elves for a sec.
Elves are allegedly perfect. They're immortal (or at least especially long-lived), beautiful, smart, in harmony with nature... Their societies are often described as utopias, and if they're flawed, the flaw is usually about how they deal with the occasional imperfection.
But elves are also decendent from (IRL inspired by, and in D&D lore literally scions of) the fey. The wonderful and terrible fey; The tricky, duplicious fey; The chaotic, unpredictible fey. The so called 'good folk', who hide beneath their charming appearance not exactly malice, but a view so different of morality that to a mortal it could equally be that.
The elves have this in their blood. Or maybe not. But the idea must be lurking somewhere in their collective subconciousness. The prospect that buried not-so-deep under their peaceful civilization, is still the wild, perilious nature of their ancestors.
This makes them the perfect candidates for... Gothic Horror!

I think this time I'm going bigger than one plot hook. I'm gonna do a domain with an elf darklord.
I'm gonna give a dark twist to one of my favourite Tolkine stories; Beren and Luthien, the OG Human/Elf Star-Crossed Love story.*

So. I always felt like Thingol is the real antagonist in the Beren and Luthien story, risking Beren's life just because he thinks his daughter can do better. Eventually he accepts Beren into the family, but only after bro lost an arm.
So.
What if even this wasn't enough? What if our snobbish elf king didn't learn from his mistake?
Do you want a darklord? Cause that's how you get a darklord!

Turendo, king of Tauroiala, had little love for the (so-called) inferior races. Sure, they were his subjects too and had equal rights, but it didn't mean he wanted his daughter to hook up with one.
So when his dear Elyana brought home a human adventurer named Tuval, he deemed it absurd. How foolish could the girl be, to think she can be happy with one of them? Turendo loved his daughter more than anything in the world, and for this exact reason he had to protect her from herself.
He promised Tuval he can marry Elyana if he accomplishes a dozen quests. Each mission seemed simple at first, but turned out to be nigh-impossible. By the time Tuval had finished his 12th quest, he was in his early fourties, horribly scarred, and dying from a curse that was layed upon him by a foe - But Elyana still wanted him. With the knowledge she'd acquired in herbs and spells, the princess undid his curse and nursed him back to health. Turendo held his part of the bargain, the two married, and it seemed the family was finally at peace.
But as the years passed and the prince and princess had children of their own - who grew up so fast it seemed they'd inherit their father's lifespan - Turendo began to regret his acceptance. He doomed his daughter to bear children she'd outlive, which would bring her nothing but tears. But that Tuval will only be around for a few more decades, wouldn't he? After he dies, Turendo can find his daughter a proper elvish husband, who'll father properly long-lived heirs to the throne.
Elyana and Tuval's 20th anniversary was celebrated with a luxurious ball in the royal grove. Turendo sat in the shadow of Atar'orn, the largest and oldest tree in the grove, with the queen to his right and the princess and her husband to his left. The finest of food and wine was served and the most beautiful of songs were sang - including several renditions of the lover's own story. Elyana was the loudest singer - of which none complained, as she was also the best one.
But when the feast ended and the time for dances had begun, Elyana refused to join, claiming she was weary. This has bewildered Turendo, as his daughter loved dancing more than anything else in the world. He asked if she was feeling well, to which she nodded - but then he noticed a gray streak in her hair.
Confronted, Elyana admitted her dark secret:
Tuval had died from his curse all those years ago.
At the time, she made a pact with death: her lover will be ressurected, and in return, she'd age and die as a human. A large price it sounds, but small to her, for she would not live without him.
Turendo was outraged.
"As if it wasn't audocious enough," He stood up, looming over his son-in-law, "That you deem yourself worthy of my daughter, you dare to take her down with you?!"
"I didn't even know!" Tuval protested. "I was a lifeless corpse at the time, and neither saw nor heard the deal made! Only few years ago, when she stopped having the women's buisness, did she tell me the truth of her sacrifice."
Turendo forced himself to hold back his fury. The man could not be blamed for what could not do.
"Had you known," He asked, taking a deep breath, "Could you stop her, would you do so?"
"I would have died for Elyana a thousand deaths, would have suffered every punishment and pain, as I suffered each of your tests." Tuval answered. "But it was her choice to make. I'd never ask her to make it, but as she had, I'd not take it away from her."
"What kind of a husband are you," The elf stared him down, "to prefer your own life over that of your wife?"
"One who respects his wife's decisions over her own body." The man shrugged. "She's an adult, you know."
Then Turendo drew his sword to make the man pay for his slight. Tuval quickly drew his, but the old hero was not as strong as he once was, and no match for the elf, who had on his side both the skill of centuries' experience and the vigour of youth. Elyana, a great witch and a heroine on her own right, interfered with a song of power, but for all her might she could not being herself to harm her own kin.
Turendo slew his daughter and his son-in-law, and as their blood spilled over the roots of Atar'orn, the tree blackened and withered, and the mists claimed Tauroiala.

Tauroiala is a forested domain, minimally interfered by (demi)humans' buildings and roads - which are often designed to mold with the terrain. It's mainly populated by elves, gnomes and fey creatures, with a small human minority, and governed by The Silver Court, with Turendo as its head.
If one fails a powers check on Tauroiala's land, all plants in a radius of a number of meters equal to the check's DC die, and the earth in that radius becomes completely barren for an equal number of years.

Important locations (And NPCs):

The Dead Grove
Where the royal grove once stood, the land is now charred and barren, and the trees black and leafless. The legends say that Tuval's sword, Spite, is buried under the roots of Atar'orn, and many adventurers tried their luck in claiming it - but this will prove harder than it seems, for every single tree in the grove is in fact an undead treant.

The Silver Court
Well, it's your typical fairy court. Political intrigue, curses, flower-shaped gowns, you can come up with it yourself.

Elyana's Treehouse
Furious at her husband's death but too conflicted to avenge him, Elyana fled the Silver Court with her children to the depths of the forest, where she raised out of the trees a new home for them. Each of the house's rooms is built on a different treetop, and they're connected by branch bridges.
Elyana is a high-level druid/bard, and is still considered an elf for all intents and purposes other than aging effects. She has black hair streaked with silver and gray eyes. She is wise and compassionate, and despite the many sorrows she'd experienced still possesses a fine sense of humour. She rarely adventures herself, but gladly offers those who do healing and refuge - as long as they mean well. Those who don't soon find out why all wise men fear the anger of a gentle person.
Actually, her and Tuval's children - whom I intentionally left undescribed - are, at the time of the domain's creation, in the conventional starting age for adventuring. If you want one of them as a PC, you can pick either the human, elf or half-elf racial option (a reflection of Elyana's own choice) - And considering their background, they're likely (but don't have) to choose druid, ranger, bard, cleric or paladin as their class.

Rivershade
In one of Tuval's quests, he had to cross a river without touching or passing over the water. In return for a poem, he asked the river's water genie to raise the stream and everything in it - rocks, seaweed, fishes - high in the air, and thus walked in the dry creek under the water. To this day, that portion of the river hangs magically as an arch in the sky. A few years later, a group of gnomes had settled down in the creek and built a prospering town. Many tourists come to Rivershade to witness the genie's miracle and the result of Tuval's wit, and the town offers many inns, attractions and overpriced souvenir shops.

The Cat's Lair
One of Tuval and Elyana's most fearsome foes was the tabaxi lich Tevildo, who captured the ranger trying to steal from him an enchanted jewel at the king's request. Elyana found Tuval and freed him, and together they defeated the dreadful cat. When faced with the question of what to do with the lich's magnificent collection of books and magic items, however, the couple had one of their first fights: Tuval wanted to burn to ashes the place that brought him and Tevildo's other prisoners so much pain, while Elyana loathed the idea of destroying so much knowledge. They decided to consult the nearby town's cleric, who said that while a lich's lair contain's many treasures, these treasures tend to be cursed. He and his acolytes would do their best to purify the place, but the safest way to prevent the curses from befalling anyone is to make sure they're never owned by anyone.
Thus, The Cat's Lair was transformed into Tauroiala's first public library.
Local kids come to read stories, scholars from all over the domain come to research ancient tomes, and adventurers can borrow magic items under the strict time limitation of three weeks - beyond that you might get cursed by a spell that had yet to be discovered by the clergy, and we don't want that to happen, right?
The Lair is generally considered a benelovent place nowadays, being a center of community, art and science. A Tauroialan PC might have fond memories from a former visit there. But no one had ever identified Tevildo's phylactery, meaning he might be back someday... Meowhahahahahaha!
Tevildo is a comic villain with fondness for drama and theatricallity, completely devoid of a typical Ravenloft character's tragic undertones, because he became what he is today centuries before Tauroiala was claimed by Ravenloft. Not all cats are little devilspawns, but he definitely is, and proudfully so. He revels in his malice, and likes to make people miserable in hilarious ways. Yet, he can be friendly when he's in the right mood, and will help the characters if he thinks it will be funnier than torturing them. The right half of his body is completely skeletal, while the left half is lifelike and covered in blue fur.






Turendo's Powers and Dominion

Turendo is a sun elf aristocrat. He used to be an oath of the crown paladin (sworn to his own royal house), but is now an oathbreaker as he betrayed his heir. He can also cast the spell Withering Touch as a cantrip, with no components required - in fact, as he's cursed by the dark powers, he must succeed a 5 DC dexterity saving throw to touch a living being without casting it on them.

Closing the Borders

When Turendo closes the borders of Tauroiala, winter falls on the domain - leaves fall, the temperature drops and snow starts falling. When he opens it, the weather changes back to spring.

Turendo's torment:

Turendo is tortured by the following circumstances:
- Elyana is alive, but refuses to forgive her father for Tuval's murder. Turendo is desperate to remarry her, but as she still ages as a human, no elf would agree to take her hand - and Turendo can't protest, cause that would make him a world-class hypocrite.
- Tuval is a powerful semicorporeal ghost and continues to haunt his father-in-law. At times he's friendly and at times hostile, but he always asks the same question: What would it take for you to finally accept me? Turendo sends him on more and more ridiculous quests - inside and outside of the domain - but Tuval always returns, usually successful.
- When Elyana passes away, she and Tuval will finally be freed from Ravenloft and move on to the afterlife. But then Turendo's second daughter, Alde'a, will fall in love with a dwarf, and Turendo will face the same test - which, knowing how darklords' brain works, he'd probably fail again.





*Yes, Tolkien can't be the first who wrote about a human and a supernatural creature falling in love. That trope is older than feudalism. But I think he had popularized several things about it that got fossilized in modern literature and D&D.
- It's specifically an elf or fey. You don't see many half-dwarves around, right? And in D&D we don't even get stats for other mix-raced options. Logistically it makes no sense, as there are many fantasy species would find it easier to mingle with humans than elves do. (Yeah, I know that as of late there's plenty of fantasy romance around more monstrous creatures, but... Eh... That's usually the kind of romance people my age shouldn't be reading.)
- The elf and human can have a happy ending... Until one dies of old age and the other either joins them in death or lives the rest of their lives alone. The lifespan gap is the only inevitable source of tragedy - everything else is a social construct and thus solvable.

Reason For the Origin
It happened to Tolkien IRL.
Seriously.
Like, his crush Edith wasn't an elf, but she was protestant while he was catholic, and to his adoptive father it was just as bad. He forbade young Tolkien from talking to her until he's 18, and bro just waited until his 18th birthday and then wrote Edith a letter. And then, of course, there was WW1, and then Tolkien got sick... To sum it all together, that couple went through a lot of drama before they could finally unite. And even then, Edith never really made peace with converting to catholicsm so they can marry. She too made quite a sacrifice for that relationship to work. So you can understand the analogy.

Why Does It LInger?
First, cause it's good.
As someone who'd read multiple drafts of Beren and Luthien's story, I can say that every version brought me to tears. It's a beautiful story. Read it.
Second, cause it's repeated inside Middle Earth. Aragorn and Arwen, anybody? They literaly identify themselves as Beren and Luthien expies. This gives the story an aura of a traditional one, one that lovers all over history can relate too.
Third, regarding the 'specifically elf/fey', it's because it intensifies the conflict. Elves are the most beautiful creatures our poor human could choose, but also the most unachievable. The elvish beauty also makes them more convinient for romantic self-inserts like Tolkien himself made - Every girl would like to be compared to a fairy; A dragonborn, on the other hand, is more risky... (Unless your partner is as a lizard-obssessed as my boyfriend.)
Fourth, regarding the 'and they lived happily ever after until they died' ending: It's because it's more relatable to the modern reader than the older, more tragic version. Let's take another famous supernatural star-crossed love story: The Little Mermaid. It originally has a sad ending, because its author had a sad ending: Hans Christian Andersen was a queer man in a time when homosexuality was too much of a taboo to even directly write about. He watched the man he loved getting married with a woman, and knew there's nothing he can do about it. In his generation, I'm not sure if even straight lovers from different religious sects could make it work like the Tolkiens would a century later. We have the fortune of living in a time and culture where people have a lot more freedom in their choice of partner IRL - tragedies still happen, but I think most of us who face such conflict can expect something more along the lines of 'You two have to go through a difficult journey but together you can make it and eventually your parents will either accept you or will no longer be in the position to decide for you' then 'You'll either die tragically or have to forgo all romance and live as a (probably celibate) angel-like figure'.

Should It Linger?
I think Beren and Luthien's story is absolutely one to be remembered and cherished, but also one that recieved enough adaptations. (Confession: My first attempt at writing an original novel was an urban-fantasy version of Elf/Human Star-Crossed Love. It was very cute, but I abandoned it because I felt I'm an Israeli trying to write a British story and it just doesn't work. 'Write what you know' and all of that.) I'd love to see more love stories representing other fantasy species (especially ones with no human involved) + D&D lineages for the progeny of those stories. I also think that as a society we've advanced enough to have more queer supernatural couples.
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

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TheArcaneWeirdo wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 12:10 pm What is an elf community scared of?

Let's think about elves for a sec.
Elves are allegedly perfect. They're immortal (or at least especially long-lived), beautiful, smart, in harmony with nature... Their societies are often described as utopias, and if they're flawed, the flaw is usually about how they deal with the occasional imperfection.
But elves are also decendent from (IRL inspired by, and in D&D lore literally scions of) the fey. The wonderful and terrible fey; The tricky, duplicious fey; The chaotic, unpredictible fey. The so called 'good folk', who hide beneath their charming appearance not exactly malice, but a view so different of morality that to a mortal it could equally be that.
The elves have this in their blood. Or maybe not. But the idea must be lurking somewhere in their collective subconciousness. The prospect that buried not-so-deep under their peaceful civilization, is still the wild, perilious nature of their ancestors.
This makes them the perfect candidates for... Gothic Horror!

I think this time I'm going bigger than one plot hook. I'm gonna do a domain with an elf darklord.
I'm gonna give a dark twist to one of my favourite Tolkine stories; Beren and Luthien, the OG Human/Elf Star-Crossed Love story.*

So. I always felt like Thingol is the real antagonist in the Beren and Luthien story, risking Beren's life just because he thinks his daughter can do better. Eventually he accepts Beren into the family, but only after bro lost an arm.
So.
What if even this wasn't enough? What if our snobbish elf king didn't learn from his mistake?
Do you want a darklord? Cause that's how you get a darklord!

Turendo, king of Tauroiala, had little love for the (so-called) inferior races. Sure, they were his subjects too and had equal rights, but it didn't mean he wanted his daughter to hook up with one.
So when his dear Elyana brought home a human adventurer named Tuval, he deemed it absurd. How foolish could the girl be, to think she can be happy with one of them? Turendo loved his daughter more than anything in the world, and for this exact reason he had to protect her from herself.
He promised Tuval he can marry Elyana if he accomplishes a dozen quests. Each mission seemed simple at first, but turned out to be nigh-impossible. By the time Tuval had finished his 12th quest, he was in his early fourties, horribly scarred, and dying from a curse that was layed upon him by a foe - But Elyana still wanted him. With the knowledge she'd acquired in herbs and spells, the princess undid his curse and nursed him back to health. Turendo held his part of the bargain, the two married, and it seemed the family was finally at peace.
But as the years passed and the prince and princess had children of their own - who grew up so fast it seemed they'd inherit their father's lifespan - Turendo began to regret his acceptance. He doomed his daughter to bear children she'd outlive, which would bring her nothing but tears. But that Tuval will only be around for a few more decades, wouldn't he? After he dies, Turendo can find his daughter a proper elvish husband, who'll father properly long-lived heirs to the throne.
Elyana and Tuval's 20th anniversary was celebrated with a luxurious ball in the royal grove. Turendo sat in the shadow of Atar'orn, the largest and oldest tree in the grove, with the queen to his right and the princess and her husband to his left. The finest of food and wine was served and the most beautiful of songs were sang - including several renditions of the lover's own story. Elyana was the loudest singer - of which none complained, as she was also the best one.
But when the feast ended and the time for dances had begun, Elyana refused to join, claiming she was weary. This has bewildered Turendo, as his daughter loved dancing more than anything else in the world. He asked if she was feeling well, to which she nodded - but then he noticed a gray streak in her hair.
Confronted, Elyana admitted her dark secret:
Tuval had died from his curse all those years ago.
At the time, she made a pact with death: her lover will be ressurected, and in return, she'd age and die as a human. A large price it sounds, but small to her, for she would not live without him.
Turendo was outraged.
"As if it wasn't audocious enough," He stood up, looming over his son-in-law, "That you deem yourself worthy of my daughter, you dare to take her down with you?!"
"I didn't even know!" Tuval protested. "I was a lifeless corpse at the time, and neither saw nor heard the deal made! Only few years ago, when she stopped having the women's buisness, did she tell me the truth of her sacrifice."
Turendo forced himself to hold back his fury. The man could not be blamed for what could not do.
"Had you known," He asked, taking a deep breath, "Could you stop her, would you do so?"
"I would have died for Elyana a thousand deaths, would have suffered every punishment and pain, as I suffered each of your tests." Tuval answered. "But it was her choice to make. I'd never ask her to make it, but as she had, I'd not take it away from her."
"What kind of a husband are you," The elf stared him down, "to prefer your own life over that of your wife?"
"One who respects his wife's decisions over her own body." The man shrugged. "She's an adult, you know."
Then Turendo drew his sword to make the man pay for his slight. Tuval quickly drew his, but the old hero was not as strong as he once was, and no match for the elf, who had on his side both the skill of centuries' experience and the vigour of youth. Elyana, a great witch and a heroine on her own right, interfered with a song of power, but for all her might she could not being herself to harm her own kin.
Turendo slew his daughter and his son-in-law, and as their blood spilled over the roots of Atar'orn, the tree blackened and withered, and the mists claimed Tauroiala.

Tauroiala is a forested domain, minimally interfered by (demi)humans' buildings and roads - which are often designed to mold with the terrain. It's mainly populated by elves, gnomes and fey creatures, with a small human minority, and governed by The Silver Court, with Turendo as its head.
If one fails a powers check on Tauroiala's land, all plants in a radius of a number of meters equal to the check's DC die, and the earth in that radius becomes completely barren for an equal number of years.

Important locations (And NPCs):

The Dead Grove
Where the royal grove once stood, the land is now charred and barren, and the trees black and leafless. The legends say that Tuval's sword, Spite, is buried under the roots of Atar'orn, and many adventurers tried their luck in claiming it - but this will prove harder than it seems, for every single tree in the grove is in fact an undead treant.

The Silver Court
Well, it's your typical fairy court. Political intrigue, curses, flower-shaped gowns, you can come up with it yourself.

Elyana's Treehouse
Furious at her husband's death but too conflicted to avenge him, Elyana fled the Silver Court with her children to the depths of the forest, where she raised out of the trees a new home for them. Each of the house's rooms is built on a different treetop, and they're connected by branch bridges.
Elyana is a high-level druid/bard, and is still considered an elf for all intents and purposes other than aging effects. She has black hair streaked with silver and gray eyes. She is wise and compassionate, and despite the many sorrows she'd experienced still possesses a fine sense of humour. She rarely adventures herself, but gladly offers those who do healing and refuge - as long as they mean well. Those who don't soon find out why all wise men fear the anger of a gentle person.
Actually, her and Tuval's children - whom I intentionally left undescribed - are, at the time of the domain's creation, in the conventional starting age for adventuring. If you want one of them as a PC, you can pick either the human, elf or half-elf racial option (a reflection of Elyana's own choice) - And considering their background, they're likely (but don't have) to choose druid, ranger, bard, cleric or paladin as their class.

Rivershade
In one of Tuval's quests, he had to cross a river without touching or passing over the water. In return for a poem, he asked the river's water genie to raise the stream and everything in it - rocks, seaweed, fishes - high in the air, and thus walked in the dry creek under the water. To this day, that portion of the river hangs magically as an arch in the sky. A few years later, a group of gnomes had settled down in the creek and built a prospering town. Many tourists come to Rivershade to witness the genie's miracle and the result of Tuval's wit, and the town offers many inns, attractions and overpriced souvenir shops.

The Cat's Lair
One of Tuval and Elyana's most fearsome foes was the tabaxi lich Tevildo, who captured the ranger trying to steal from him an enchanted jewel at the king's request. Elyana found Tuval and freed him, and together they defeated the dreadful cat. When faced with the question of what to do with the lich's magnificent collection of books and magic items, however, the couple had one of their first fights: Tuval wanted to burn to ashes the place that brought him and Tevildo's other prisoners so much pain, while Elyana loathed the idea of destroying so much knowledge. They decided to consult the nearby town's cleric, who said that while a lich's lair contain's many treasures, these treasures tend to be cursed. He and his acolytes would do their best to purify the place, but the safest way to prevent the curses from befalling anyone is to make sure they're never owned by anyone.
Thus, The Cat's Lair was transformed into Tauroiala's first public library.
Local kids come to read stories, scholars from all over the domain come to research ancient tomes, and adventurers can borrow magic items under the strict time limitation of three weeks - beyond that you might get cursed by a spell that had yet to be discovered by the clergy, and we don't want that to happen, right?
The Lair is generally considered a benelovent place nowadays, being a center of community, art and science. A Tauroialan PC might have fond memories from a former visit there. But no one had ever identified Tevildo's phylactery, meaning he might be back someday... Meowhahahahahaha!
Tevildo is a comic villain with fondness for drama and theatricallity, completely devoid of a typical Ravenloft character's tragic undertones, because he became what he is today centuries before Tauroiala was claimed by Ravenloft. Not all cats are little devilspawns, but he definitely is, and proudfully so. He revels in his malice, and likes to make people miserable in hilarious ways. Yet, he can be friendly when he's in the right mood, and will help the characters if he thinks it will be funnier than torturing them. The right half of his body is completely skeletal, while the left half is lifelike and covered in blue fur.






Turendo's Powers and Dominion

Turendo is a sun elf aristocrat. He used to be an oath of the crown paladin (sworn to his own royal house), but is now an oathbreaker as he betrayed his heir. He can also cast the spell Withering Touch as a cantrip, with no components required - in fact, as he's cursed by the dark powers, he must succeed a 5 DC dexterity saving throw to touch a living being without casting it on them.

Closing the Borders

When Turendo closes the borders of Tauroiala, winter falls on the domain - leaves fall, the temperature drops and snow starts falling. When he opens it, the weather changes back to spring.

Turendo's torment:

Turendo is tortured by the following circumstances:
- Elyana is alive, but refuses to forgive her father for Tuval's murder. Turendo is desperate to remarry her, but as she still ages as a human, no elf would agree to take her hand - and Turendo can't protest, cause that would make him a world-class hypocrite.
- Tuval is a powerful semicorporeal ghost and continues to haunt his father-in-law. At times he's friendly and at times hostile, but he always asks the same question: What would it take for you to finally accept me? Turendo sends him on more and more ridiculous quests - inside and outside of the domain - but Tuval always returns, usually successful.
- When Elyana passes away, she and Tuval will finally be freed from Ravenloft and move on to the afterlife. But then Turendo's second daughter, Alde'a, will fall in love with a dwarf, and Turendo will face the same test - which, knowing how darklords' brain works, he'd probably fail again.





*Yes, Tolkien can't be the first who wrote about a human and a supernatural creature falling in love. That trope is older than feudalism. But I think he had popularized several things about it that got fossilized in modern literature and D&D.
- It's specifically an elf or fey. You don't see many half-dwarves around, right? And in D&D we don't even get stats for other mix-raced options. Logistically it makes no sense, as there are many fantasy species would find it easier to mingle with humans than elves do. (Yeah, I know that as of late there's plenty of fantasy romance around more monstrous creatures, but... Eh... That's usually the kind of romance people my age shouldn't be reading.)
- The elf and human can have a happy ending... Until one dies of old age and the other either joins them in death or lives the rest of their lives alone. The lifespan gap is the only inevitable source of tragedy - everything else is a social construct and thus solvable.

Reason For the Origin
It happened to Tolkien IRL.
Seriously.
Like, his crush Edith wasn't an elf, but she was protestant while he was catholic, and to his adoptive father it was just as bad. He forbade young Tolkien from talking to her until he's 18, and bro just waited until his 18th birthday and then wrote Edith a letter. And then, of course, there was WW1, and then Tolkien got sick... To sum it all together, that couple went through a lot of drama before they could finally unite. And even then, Edith never really made peace with converting to catholicsm so they can marry. She too made quite a sacrifice for that relationship to work. So you can understand the analogy.

Why Does It LInger?
First, cause it's good.
As someone who'd read multiple drafts of Beren and Luthien's story, I can say that every version brought me to tears. It's a beautiful story. Read it.
Second, cause it's repeated inside Middle Earth. Aragorn and Arwen, anybody? They literaly identify themselves as Beren and Luthien expies. This gives the story an aura of a traditional one, one that lovers all over history can relate too.
Third, regarding the 'specifically elf/fey', it's because it intensifies the conflict. Elves are the most beautiful creatures our poor human could choose, but also the most unachievable. The elvish beauty also makes them more convinient for romantic self-inserts like Tolkien himself made - Every girl would like to be compared to a fairy; A dragonborn, on the other hand, is more risky... (Unless your partner is as a lizard-obssessed as my boyfriend.)
Fourth, regarding the 'and they lived happily ever after until they died' ending: It's because it's more relatable to the modern reader than the older, more tragic version. Let's take another famous supernatural star-crossed love story: The Little Mermaid. It originally has a sad ending, because its author had a sad ending: Hans Christian Andersen was a queer man in a time when homosexuality was too much of a taboo to even directly write about. He watched the man he loved getting married with a woman, and knew there's nothing he can do about it. In his generation, I'm not sure if even straight lovers from different religious sects could make it work like the Tolkiens would a century later. We have the fortune of living in a time and culture where people have a lot more freedom in their choice of partner IRL - tragedies still happen, but I think most of us who face such conflict can expect something more along the lines of 'You two have to go through a difficult journey but together you can make it and eventually your parents will either accept you or will no longer be in the position to decide for you' then 'You'll either die tragically or have to forgo all romance and live as a (probably celibate) angel-like figure'.

Should It Linger?
I think Beren and Luthien's story is absolutely one to be remembered and cherished, but also one that recieved enough adaptations. (Confession: My first attempt at writing an original novel was an urban-fantasy version of Elf/Human Star-Crossed Love. It was very cute, but I abandoned it because I felt I'm an Israeli trying to write a British story and it just doesn't work. 'Write what you know' and all of that.) I'd love to see more love stories representing other fantasy species (especially ones with no human involved) + D&D lineages for the progeny of those stories. I also think that as a society we've advanced enough to have more queer supernatural couples.
I'm aware that Tauroiala might seem too bright a place for the domains of dread. The only properly gothic location is The Dead Grove.
Perhaps it's because of how new it is to the demiplane - it didn't have time yet to absorb its evil. I just felt like it needs to be beautiful and fun for its corruption to be sufficiently dramatic.
However, I think the underlying theme in Tauroiala is choice.
Elyana chose to tie her fate with that of Tuval, and accepted the consequences. Turendo refused time after time to accept her choice - choosing to blame Tuval for it instead - and thus chose to doom his family.
Thus, how an adventuring party experiences Tauroiala may diverge greatly according to their choices: They can be smart, or they can choose to rush into the Dead Grove in search for loot and find themselves surrounded by treants. They can return their magic items to the library on time, or they can get cursed. They can befriend Elyana and gain an amazing ally or piss her off and make her their worst enemy. And of course, if they choose to do something powers-check worthy, they might find themselves causing death and decay wherever they go. They can have a wonderful time in Tauroiala (and maybe rest from more intense domains), or they can create their own nightmare.
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

Post by TheArcaneWeirdo »

I love these non-human horror posts, but I think they belong elsewhere. This thread is for Tolkien Fossils in D&D. I'll start another thread for these in Ravenloft Forum.
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

Post by Speedwagon »

Non-human horror is indeed quite interesting, but I think I agree with your assessment. Otherwise, I just wanted to pop in to say that I enjoy this analysis of tropes myself! I read up quite a bit on TvTropes about tropes (too much I'd reckon) and I enjoy when channels like Overly Sarcastic Productions and others (like Hello Future Me) talk about such tropes and how to enhance one's writing. It's interesting you call them "fossil" tropes as I tend to refer to them as "grandfather" tropes or "legacy" tropes, in that they have a strong & storied history & legacy behind them. It's interesting how our terminologies can differ.
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Re: Tolkien Fossils Thread

Post by TheArcaneWeirdo »

Speedwagon wrote: Sun Nov 23, 2025 5:42 pm Non-human horror is indeed quite interesting, but I think I agree with your assessment. Otherwise, I just wanted to pop in to say that I enjoy this analysis of tropes myself! I read up quite a bit on TvTropes about tropes (too much I'd reckon) and I enjoy when channels like Overly Sarcastic Productions and others (like Hello Future Me) talk about such tropes and how to enhance one's writing. It's interesting you call them "fossil" tropes as I tend to refer to them as "grandfather" tropes or "legacy" tropes, in that they have a strong & storied history & legacy behind them. It's interesting how our terminologies can differ.
I consider them 'fossils' in the specific context of D&D, because I get the impression that most players don't know their origin but still use them. Like fossil idioms, where most people forgot the meaning of a word but still use it in one specific expression.
"Not all that is violet is deadly, and not all that is deadly is violet." - "S", Gaz IV, page 13.
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