[VRGtR]: Alhoon's ramblings and discussions of them

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

On the diversity issue, as a gay man I love seeing new minority characters of all stripes, good and evil.

The key word there being new characters.

[SkiBird]

Call me crazy, but I prefer the new Falkovnia from the old one ... Simply assume Azalin had enough of the foolish merc and sent his endless hordes. Drakov's curse blocked him from winning ... and he was quickly killed ...

I was thinking along those same lines. The zombie plague could be connected to Azalin's 'last gasp' as Darklord before he shattered Darkon. He's gone, but some of his domain's defenses were set on repeat, as it were. Cue the crushing waves of zombies.

A Dread Possibility. Perhaps, Vlad returned from his umpteenth Dead Man's Campaign only to find that there was a quite unwanted usurper on his throne. Worse, every village he stopped in along the way had pledged fealty to this noisome upstart Vladeska. So the Kingfuhrer rightly and promptly razed the ungrateful wretches' hovels to the ground. He learned that the only ones who remained loyal to the True Falcon were the ones he had marched to war with ... so now Vlad must plan/effect a guerrilla war within his own domain.

He bides his time now, deep within some secluded forest demesne, maneuvering his troops, selecting his targets according to some unknowable — and presumably unwinnably-cursed — scheme, and then the Falcon strikes. All of this happens about once a month of course. And it just sort of happens to coincide with the monthly zombie hordes, of course, because the brutal truth is this ... they are one and the same. Maybe Vlad Drakov did shamble home from the battlefield with his tail tucked between his legs ... but it turns out he actually fell alongside his men and rose as one of the walking dead. The king is dead, D-E-D dead, long live the king. His lifeless corpse is now the commanding general of the zombie hordes. Stuck in an endless war, Vlad finds himself forced to fight an insurrection against the living upon his own soil ... forever at war with those that had the audacity to survive where he could not and take his land from him.

[alhoon]

Well, if his daughter killed him it's not unreasonable for him to show up again leading the very hordes of zombies that remind Vladeska of those she killed.

[Mistmaster]

Drakov curse, even canonically doesn't stop him from winning battles but from conquering and winning respect; faced with an invasion, he would win.

[Jester of the FoS]

Call me crazy, but I prefer the new Falkovnia from the old one. If only it had more time...
Anyway, it is very easy to throw new Falkovnia in the old. Simply assume Azalin had enough of the foolish merc and sent his endless hordes. Drakov's curse blocked him from winning (we go with the 'he was never more than a bloody merc boss; he had his moments but he was no genious) and he was quickly killed as a big loser by Vladeska that was better than him in every regard and was biding her time.
And here we are.

I like the idea of a zombie apocalypse domain. But that doesn't need to be Falkovnia. I liked the ironic place the existing Falkovnia served in the world, where it was the breadbasket of the Core and this dominant force in trade but not one in military might like the ruler wanted. And the human evil of Vlad opposed to the supernatural evil of the rest of the Core.

I think a zombie apocalypse domain would have worked well if designed from scratch, with the zombies or their cause being the darklord and multiple isolated pockets of survivors, each with their own style of survival. Which would allow the PCs the chance to assume leadership of a band of survivors without having to also kill the darklord.

Question: Do you guys think the people she kills/sacrifices show up in the next zombie wave?

I imagine they're disposed of as creating an army outside your walls is foolish.

[alhoon]

So... Night of the Walking Dead? We already have that.

[alhoon]

I was thinking about Saidra again... think about her dying realizing "Crap! I was the sister of the duke after all! A fake duke, but nobody knew that! I could have been a lady!"
Man that have got to sting...

[kourkenko]

I'm somehow confused because, if i remember correctly, the Plane of Shadow became the Shadowfell during the 4th edition, with a new place among the other planes.
But in the book, page 6, the plane is still named plane of shadows so... Meh ?

Edit: and at page 61, it is mentionned "in the far-flung corner of the plane of shadow drifts a hidden expanse of roilling mist and vague semi-reality. These are the domains of dread, the nightmare demiplanes that form the setting of Ravenloft".

So beside the fact the Core was "destroyed", nothing changed ?

[onmyoji]

So beside the fact the Core was "destroyed", nothing changed ?

Nothing whatsoever. They just didn't want to deal with the responsibility of writing out a combined Core. Complete matter of convenience.

— onmyoji

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

So beside the fact the Core was "destroyed", nothing changed ?

Between 4th and 5th, I suppose not. Further back than that, I am given to understand that the Mists were in the Deep Ethereal, not the Plane of Shadow.

[Resonant Curse]

Between 4th and 5th, I suppose not. Further back than that, I am given to understand that the Mists were in the Deep Ethereal, not the Plane of Shadow.

This is correct, the Demiplane of Dread is located in the deep ethereal. For the Planescape view on it (limited though it is) the "A Guide to the Ethereal Plane" book provides details for those traveling in the Ethereal and how they view/interact with the demiplane if they stumble upon it. Older core Ravenloft products also reference it as well.

[kourkenko]

Between 4th and 5th, I suppose not. Further back than that, I am given to understand that the Mists were in the Deep Ethereal, not the Plane of Shadow.

This is correct, the Demiplane of Dread is located in the deep ethereal. For the Planescape view on it (limited though it is) the "A Guide to the Ethereal Plane" book provides details for those traveling in the Ethereal and how they view/interact with the demiplane if they stumble upon it. Older core Ravenloft products also reference it as well.

I know and i agree. I should had better expressed myself, i was talking between the 4th and 5th and the new Van Richten's guide.

I find amazing they are not able to keep any consistency in a single edition for the lore. The domains of dread are located in the deep etheral imc and will stay here, (inside a crystal sphere, it made everything easier to explain and it is consistent with the lore of the 2nd and third edition).

Btw, i hope they will do a remake of spelljammer, they can not do worse ^^.

Edit: and btw, it there any difference between the plane of shadow and the shadowfell ? I though the shadowfell was partially led by the Raven Queen.

[Resonant Curse]

Other than partially absorbing the ethereal plane's functions there isn't a lot of difference aside from the Raven Queen being added.


The Spelljammer adventure Under the Dark Fist actually had an option where the main villain gets pulled to Ravenloft and has a domain contained within a crystal sphere.

[Hell_Born]

Edit: and btw, it there any difference between the plane of shadow and the shadowfell ? I though the shadowfell was partially led by the Raven Queen.

Off the top of my head, as I haven't read the Plane of Shadow lore in ages, the Plane of Shadow sits somewhere between being a copy of the Ethereal Plane, just themed as "darkness" rather than "ghostly mists", and being an Elemental Plane of Darkness. It largely duplicates the Prime Material, but with severely diminished light, and it can act as a potential gateway to other worlds, similarly to the Deep Ethereal. It's strongly associated with the Illusion school of magic, and even its own unique forms of magic, which are basically "Darkness Elementalism". It even has the Ethereal trait of developing symbolism to reflect events that occur in the prime material locale it's attached to.

In comparison, the Shadowfell is characterized as "The Plane of the Dead". It's a combination of the old Negative Energy Plane, as the fundamental wellspring from which necromancy and undeath spring, and the cosmic role of "sorting hall of the dead" - this is where the spirits of the deceased first materialized before they pass on to their fates in the afterlife as petitioners or whatever. It does have an association with shadow magic, but is largely devoid of the more darkness elemental aspects of the Plane of Shadow.

Basically? The Plane of Shadow is the Ethereal Plane, but Darkness instead of Ghosts/Mists, whilst the Shadowfell is basically Pharasma's Boneyard from Pathfinder. Ignoring that I'm pretty sure the Shadowfell came first, but regardless, that description should hopefully make it easier to wrap your head around.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

When the concept of the Shadowfell first appeared in 4e I had assumed that it was a result of the ToUD making The Demiplane of Dread be consumed by the Demiplane of Shadow and creating the Shadowfell that was considered a parallel plane, or an "echo" of the Material Plane. As long as Gwydion the Sorcerer-Fiend is trapped within the Obsidian Gate which s a portal connecting Ravenloft to the Plane of Shadow, I believe Ravenloft to still be within the Near Ethereal. Perharps the ToUD is the escape of Gwydion transporting The Land of Mists in the Demiplane of Shadow and creating the Shadowfell. If we take in account VGtR with the dissolution of the Core, the wanderings of Firan Zal 'honan, the slow dissolvement of Darkon to the Mists and the absence of the Shadow Rift, maybe Gwydion escaped, the Shadow Rift being the center of the Core made everything fall apart or Azalin with the help of the Gentelman Callers's Children managed to escape creating havok in the Demiplane. Now being inside the Shadowfell each domain can independently attach to a world in the Prime Material Plane thus it is again a "Weekend in Hell" setting instead of a campaign world.