It is back!!! What we do know about VR Guide to Ravenloft?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

My guess is that the number of people who wonder about where Dementlieu gets its grain from is so vanishingly small that it's not worth catering to. (Yes, that's exactly us here, we have to face it.)

The goal seems to be "give the DM who wants to run horror adventures the tools to do so" (which has really been the point of a lot of Ravenloft's quirks from the start.) (As opposed to making a believable world with a cohesive narrative). With that in mind, I expect a lot of it to be "Whatever the DM wants". They may even present the separate domains as the default and throw out a line saying "hey, if you want to connect them, go ahead."

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Dang. We're going to be those guys, huh?
The ones telling new players about all the great lore of editions gone past, trying to get them to take an interest.
...
Game on, Fraternity!

[Zilfer]

Yeah I think it's been calculated here already that the Core itself does not make sense, despite there being tidbits that try to make it make sense. Most people already change the Core to be larger in scale than it actually is (or I do) so you can't cross it in like a week. I'm pretty sure somewhere in the bowels of this forum there are also Live/Death Ratios calculated to the number of monsters and how much food it takes to support said monsters, and Ravenloft should basically be barren or have all it's human population killed off even with the influx of Outsiders. (unless you significantly increase the rate at which they are filtering in.) Verbrek I think is one that particularally stands out official Population wise. As always ignore what you don't like, and use what you do.

Regardless I am excited to see a few new takes on domains, and if I can pull anything or adapt them to my current games being run.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

Verbrek I think is one that particularally stands out official Population wise.

In real world they would have farms of livestock specifically made for consumption, and Alfred would be an environmental activist fighting human food coorporations and speciesist activists.

[Igor the Henchman]

There's a new video interview about the new incarnation of Dementlieu.

I haven't decided if I like it yet, but I appreciate that they're transparent with us about what Dementlieu 2.0 sets to do: provide a domain that's laser-focused on politicial intrigue and/or twisted faerie tales. If the DM prefers the former, it can be human-centric and low fantasy. If you prefer the latter, the domain can be more whimsical, with magic and nobles of many different races. It's a choice you get to make.

I also liked that Wesley Schneider at least mentions Dominic D'Honaire and acknowledges that his version is a departure from the classic Ravenloft setting.

EDIT: they posted a longer version of the interview, so I updated the link.

[Zilfer]

So I apologize if this is the wrong place to put it but I feel like the possibility of it being true to the changes in the book could be fairly high being as it is a streamed campaign on the official DnD youtube channel. (The same channel the Dementlieu interview is coming from above)

Ok take this with a grain of salt since it's from a streamed Campaign of the Black Dice Society being played out over the weeks it seems but if it is anything to go by, (spoilers ahead for first 3 episodes). The DM also mentioned playing this one "close to the book".

It seems like Gennifer's lycanthropy might be a more prevalent thing. She's sipping on Wolf's Bane apparently. Tidbits leaked out through Character roll play seem to indicate Il Aluk might be changed to only have a plague? The Carnival seems to still be a thing with most of the familiar characters with a new addition of some sort of... Market prior to entering the carnival proper? (This seems new to me since i can't remember it from the 2e product.) (Familiar characters i picked out, Tindal, Charlotte, Amelia, Snake Lady, Professor of the Pickled Punks, Isolde, Possibly a reworked Rose who can talk. Organ Grinder, and perhaps a few more I missed in Tindal's opening welcoming to the party.)

Furthermore the player from Darkon has let slip that the hour of ascension is at hand, and the after credits scenes, seem to have Azalin Rex having left his domain and wandering around. His conversation with Strahd seems to be implying he's 'put down' his darklordship somehow and found a 'truth'. Vague yes, and he also seems to be baiting Strahd into taking over a shattered and fractured Darkon. There is a mention of something hanging in the sky in Darkon by the name of the "King's Tear",(back in the player's conversation somewhere with the professor at the carnival) and vague rumors whispered among the church that the hour of ascension may have been caused by Azalin.

Again take this all with a grain of salt however the DM at the very least has access to the book, but as DM's do they may change things in their games at will to fit their DM style and game. In the first Debut there seems to be a taste of the House of Lament beginning adventure, though how much of it I cannot say. For anyone curious about this I'd direct you to the Black Dice Society topic for the link to the first stream. Again I apologize to the mods if this is the wrong place here, but i figured it'd get more visibility if I posted here.

Edit: I also figured it may provoke more discussion about potential changes.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Hello! I'm a bit of a lurker here and don't really post, but I thought people might be interested in this Dragon Talk with Wes Schneider on VRGtR's Barovia:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/featur ... ow-barovia
He brings up Borca (in the context of the Boritsis and Dilisnyas), as well as Darkon and Mordent (when referring to Van Richten's backstory).
It sounds like domain-hopping might be part of the setting, and we can look forward to more Dragon Talks on other domains...

This got a little buried in all the April Fools festivities. Thanks for pointing it out, RPGaff, I look forward to listening to it!

Got to listen to this finally yesterday. As others have said, Wes definitely proves he knows his Ravenloft history and Horror history, and cares about the setting, but at the same time, it's clear that this incarnation is making intentional breaks from past versions. (key word there being intentional. I continue to get the sense that the changes serve a purpose that the product is going for, which again, may not be the purpose we grognards would prefer, but it's not accidental or ignorant.) There was a lot of talk about the DM making the world, and even CoS itself, a personal iteration. I don't think there's much credence given to the existence of a single Canon Setting. Every DM's instance is just as "real" as any other's. (They even floated the idea that every party that's gone up against Strahd has all been a part of his single eternal torture.)

So I don't think they are going to get caught up on dates and timelines and the like. It's always 735 when a party runs through CoS. Even if they've done it before. Whether Tatyana is currently Ireena or Tara, or twins, or a man, or a werewolf, it's always 735 again, Groundhog Day style, because it's all about a) torturing Strahd, and b) letting a party have fun playing the "slay the BBEG vampire lord" adventure.

With that said, the fact that domain hopping was mentioned at all is encouraging, and of course a lot of us are going to just keep playing the Core as-is, and that's as "real" as any version that has them separated.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

There's a new video interview about the new incarnation of Dementlieu.

I haven't decided if I like it yet, but I appreciate that they're transparent with us about what Dementlieu 2.0 sets to do: provide a domain that's laser-focused on politicial intrigue and/or twisted faerie tales. If the DM prefers the former, it can be human-centric and low fantasy. If you prefer the latter, the domain can be more whimsical, with magic and nobles of many different races. It's a choice you get to make.

I also liked that Wesley Schneider at least mentions Dominic D'Honaire and acknowledges that his version is a departure from the classic Ravenloft setting.

Of note here, Sadria is not simply a gender-swapped Dominic. Her backstory is described as "Tragic Cinderella meets Poe's Masque of the Red Death." The domain has a theme of everyone putting on a show of opulence, while they are actually impoverished. I am quite a bit reassured by this, as the whole "gala with a dark side" motif has been some of my favorite things to do in Dementlieu. I would miss the class warfare aspects if it turns out that everyone is this sort of "fake rich" and there is no real rich vs. poor dynamic. But it seems this is them leaning into one aspect of the domain to "focus" it. I would argue that existing Dementlieu isn't unfocused at all, and that the idea of "High Society Horror" has legs outside of the gala (see also: museums, the University, the Opera, the Cathedral... It's more than MotRD. It's Hunchback and Phantom and Miskatonic and House of Wax and Diary of a Madman, etc., etc.), but if they had to pick one aspect to hyperfocus on, the gala's would be my first pick as well.

Looking forward to see what this backstory is for Sadria and how we might be able to reconcile it with Dominic.

(but oh dear Ezra, the pronunciations in that clip! Joel and other Francophones, prepare yourself! )

[Igor the Henchman]

In the longer version of the interview, they do briefly mention the wax museum. Also, the village of Chateaufaux is (kinda but not quite) gone, with Port-a-Lucine making up most of the domain.

[Zilfer]

That is something i've never gotten around to in my games. Wax Museums!

[SilentRave]

I might be a too salty and mind you I'm fairly "new" to the setting than most of you guys, I've only entertained it for about 5 years or so, but I'm under the impression that Wes Schneider while well delved in the history of Ravenloft is in no way caring of it but quite fond of making the sales for WotC instead. He said, and I quote:

We’ve taken the Core, the heart of the Ravenloft setting, and shattered it. In this new interpretation, every domain is a lonely island drifting through the mists.

“Many of the domains get a modern-day brush up. We took the setting’s characters, locations, monsters, and other pieces, shook them up, and took some new directions. For example, in the ’90s, the domain of Falkovnia was a totalitarian regime ruled by a Darklord named Vlad Drakov, who had a Vlad the Impaler vibe. Well, we already have a Vlad-type figure in residence at Castle Ravenloft in Barovia, so we saw this as the perfect opportunity to give the domain a stronger identity and embrace a different brand of horror.

We can all agree he knows his stuff. We can all agree though that comparing Drakov to Strahd is the same as comparing apples to oranges. Mr. Schneider is aware of course, but obviously is instructed to operate otherwise.

With that being said I've listened to both of "Lore you should Know" and I have to admit, him speaking feels more like rhetoric than honest conversation.

As of what we DO know as of now and if we're to take the new BDC show in regard to it, as an artist and art enthusiast in general, it just feels like a bunkrapt and disrespectful attempt to grab big money on the backs of the many who created this setting with so much care and love.

If 5e products are not an indicator of poor quality and fast food-like approaches to content, the most recent WotC fiasco might be what one needs to see how ethically rotten this company has become and how they treat their product and creators. https://pocgamer.com/category/thoughts/. It is quite saddening, but then again not a surprise at all.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I'm under the impression that Wes Schneider while well delved in the history of Ravenloft is in no way caring of it but quite fond of making the sales for WotC instead.

You're completely welcome to your take on it. But to me, his excitement seems genuine. I don't think caring about the setting and making sales are mutually exclusive. (In fact, I'd argue that the best way to make sales is to care about the setting.) Keep in mind that all the Ravenloft lore we love was made by people trying to sell books for TSR and for White Wolf.

And yes, he may care about different aspects of it than I do, (or probably you do), but that probably comes with the Game Designer hat. He's looking to make it the best game he can, not the best fictional world he can.

We can all agree though that comparing Drakov to Strahd is the same as comparing apples to oranges.

Well, they are flip sides of the same coin, I'd say. Drakov more like the real Vlad Tepes, and Strahd more like the fictional Dracula he inspired. Apples and Pears maybe. Different flavor, but clearly related.

Upon listening to the full Dementlieu video (thanks, Igor!) I don't love that Dementlieu is only Port-a-lucine now, but I do like the idea that a domain based on lies is itself a lie. Awesome concept, just wish it hadn't happened to a place I love.

[Zilfer]

And if anything you can still run the old stuff, and for example Gonzoron you could easily just flip some of the names and run the New Dementlieu as a completely new Domain floating out in the mists. Again for me regardless of whether they change anything, it's up to me as the DM whether it changes anything in my game or canon. If I want this alternative universe game. (I've run I6 and CoS enough times that I have multiple timelines of the core running so it's not like this is new to me either) I also get the sense that he's very excited about this, and I'm excited because if CoS didn't already it will introduce new people to the idea of Ravenloft as a whole realm of possibilities, which people will then go probably looking for more.

I still to this day use the Wiki we have for lore dives, or to see what kind of tidbits I can pull out of it.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

We can all agree he knows his stuff. We can all agree though that comparing Drakov to Strahd is the same as comparing apples to oranges. Mr. Schneider is aware of course, but obviously is instructed to operate otherwise.

I agree, the inspiration is the same as mentioned before but the end product is completely different, Vlad based in a totalitarian regime with elements from 50s Pulp Magazine Nazi horrors, Strahd based on Bram Stokers Dracula.

With that being said I've listened to both of "Lore you should Know" and I have to admit, him speaking feels more like rhetoric than honest conversation.

I will add... enthusiastic rhetoric

it just feels like a bunkrapt and disrespectful attempt to grab big money on the backs of the many who created this setting with so much care and love.

Hasbro

If 5e products are not an indicator of poor quality and fast food-like approaches to content, the most recent WotC fiasco might be what one needs to see how ethically rotten this company has become and how they treat their product and creators. https://pocgamer.com/category/thoughts/. It is quite saddening, but then again not a surprise at all.

I remember how disappointed I was when TSR was bought by WotC. But fortunatelly William W. Connors, John W. Mangrum, Steve Miller and others did a great job, WotC created 3e which for me is better than 2e (we are talking about years of experience to develop the new rules and probably TSR would have done the same changes at some point, if it had survived). When the license to the Ravenloft trademark reverted from White Wolf to Wizards of the Coast I hoped that they would continue the setting from where it stopped but they ignored everything done by White Wolf in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. I have most of Ravenloft products released since the Black Box (except Light on the Belfry, which I didn't buy cause I didn't like the CD concept, Vecna Reborn never liked Vecna and Expedition to Castle Ravenloft which I never bothered to buy as I didn't like lot's of stuff in it, as I went through it in my neighborhood RPG store), it is a shame that White Wolf didn't continue their line (although they also made mistakes as we all know), they also blocked The Secrets of the Kargatane from producing netbooks. All these are companies and they want to sell as many books as possible, some try to tread safely and try to keep it simple, other's produce really good material and try to keep up but ultimatelly fail and are sold and others if not all block free circulation of ideas because of copyright. Now the way each company works and produces products is another issue. Reading the articles I couldn't resist thinking of Tracy Hickman. I mean he had probably a similar write for hire contract with TSR and TSR/WoTC/Hasbro owned/own the copyright for . I think that most of us are grateful that he "made" it to Ravenloft, but the creator wasn't who is to decide in the end but us, meaning each of us what we want to use and what not. What I want to say is what this community and the Kargatane before, have done and produced is/are not about copyright or money but love for the setting and sharing ideas and written material, and this is the most important thing whatever happens to the setting.

[FiranDarcalus]

Listening to Wes Schneider's interviews has me a bit more excited about the product. You can tell he's really excited about the product. While I still dislike the changes to some extent, I have to admit there are some interesting things there. Dementlieu's changes sound quite interesting, though I have to agree w/ Gonzoron that it sucks that it had to be Dementlieu. And yes, the pronunciations made my bilingual Quebecois brain hurt.

I am interested about what Zilfer mentioned about these playthroughs he listened to from Black Dice Society, esp as relates to Azalin. Do you know if it was canon form VRGtR that he is no longer Darklord, or was this just something this group had as their own storyline? If Azalin is no longer a Darklord, I will be mucho sad

I'll be interested in listening to each week's podcast to see what domain is next.