Communication between clergy in & a god outside of Ravenloft

[cure]

Vecna and communication from within the Land of Mists with his clergy outside of the Demiplane according to Domains of Dread (2ed):

"As a demigod, Vecna can speak to his followers wherever they might be. This power extends even beyond the Misty confines of Ravenloft, enabling Vecna to converse with his minions even on the Quasielemental Plane of Ash and on the world of Oerth."

Vecna and divination within and beyond the Land of Mists according to Domains of Dread (2ed):

"Vecna is the demigod of secrets and magic. As such, nothing can be kept from him. He knows instantly of everything that transpires within the walls of his citadel. This ability also extends to his followers, even those outside the Demiplane of Dread. Beyond the confines of Citadel Cavitius, however, his perception fades. He must use divinational magic to learn the secrets of those beyond the confines of the Mist. Of course, Vecna's magical power is so great that this is seldom a great handicap."

Vecna and the bestowal of spells on his clergy according to the Domains of Deread (2ed):

"Vecna, like any demigod, is able to grant his priests spells of up to 5th level. He does this as a reward for faithful prayer and devotion to his unholy cause. This ability is not limited by the confines of the Demiplane, so Vecna's priests on Oerth receive their spells just as if their god were not a prisoner of the Mists."

Thoughts?

[tomokaicho]

Vecna and communication from within the Land of Mists with his clergy outside of the Demiplane according to Domains of Dread (2ed):

It seems to me that the DPs can interfere with communication between followers and gods inside the Domains of Dread, but cannot prevent a god from fulfilling his normal functions if the god is in the DoD.

Having Vecna in the Ravenloft setting was always a stretch anyway. Perhaps the DPs were experimenting with the limits of their power. That Vecna was able to escape would indicate that their experiment was a failure.

[cure]

Ryan Naylor in this An Illustrated History of Ravenloft notes on page 92 that Inajira spend 400 years searching for his Book of Keeping and Strahd after the latter were locked away in the Land of Mists: "Which implies that knowledge of Ravenloft isn’t – or wasn’t - widely distributed among the Planes."

Now Inajira is "merely" a powerful wizard-fiend, not a god nor with ready access to a god, so this may be taken to suggest that scrying of less than divine level power cannot readily pierce the Mists. Now as suggested by the case of Azalin, determined and sustained efforts to research means of doing so may yield some degree of success after decades of failures.

[cure]

"As a demigod, Vecna can speak to his followers wherever they might be. This power extends even beyond the Misty confines of Ravenloft, enabling Vecna to converse with his minions even on the Quasielemental Plane of Ash and on the world of Oerth."

This seems to unambiguously indicate that divine remote communication can pierce the Mists, at least from the inside.

I would add that Vecna can speak to followers across closed domain borders and in other clusters including the Core. Is it self-evident, however, that this communication is two-way, i.e., that a follower can respond to Vecna and that Venca can be (immediately) aware of that response?

It is not clear whether a Commune spell cast by Vecna's followers, either outside or within the Land of Mists, functions. If the Dark Power simply "suffocate" the magic of the spell as it is cast, I would say that it works when cast outside the Land of Mists, but not within the Land of Mists. However, if we treat closed borders between domains and the border of the Land of Mists itself as being identical for the purposes of trying to reach across them with magic and if it is this barrier that makes the spell non-functional, then I would say that the spell works in only in Cavitius and, when the border is open, Torvag.

"Vecna is the demigod of secrets and magic. As such, nothing can be kept from him. He knows instantly of everything that transpires within the walls of his citadel. This ability also extends to his followers, even those outside the Demiplane of Dread. Beyond the confines of Citadel Cavitius, however, his perception fades. He must use divinational magic to learn the secrets of those beyond the confines of the Mist. Of course, Vecna's magical power is so great that this is seldom a great handicap."

This is ambiguously written, unfortunately.

(1) Is it that Vecna's remote sensing as a god can pierce the veil of the Mists but only in respect to his followers (but, strangely, not his portfolios). For anything else, he must use divinational magic augmented by his nigh unrivaled knowledge of the arcane art so as to pierce the veil of the Mists.

(2) Or is it that his remote sensing as a god cannot pierce the veil of the Mists but he can use divinational magic augmented by his nigh unrivaled knowledge of the arcane art to do so (albeit possibly only where his followers are concerned).

Perhaps the idea of remote sensing in relation to portfolios only emerges with d20 3.0/3.5. I would be tempted to go with the first interpretation and tie it into his portfolios at least somewhat. I would also be tempted to treat closed borders between domains and the border of the Land of Mists itself as being identical for the purposes of trying to scry through them.

-

Now, a really fun one: While locked away in Cavitius, could Vecna respond to the casting of the (less/greater) planar ally spell by sending one of this servants forth from Cavitius and temporarily out of the Land of Mists?

I am going to open a new thread for this one here: http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/foru ... =1&t=10446

[KingCorn]

Perhaps the Dark Powers acts as a different sort of trap depending on who it traps. For mortals, as well as lesser fiends and celestials, its like a finger trap, or bear trap. Easy to get in, almost impossible to get out.
For gods its the reverse, with the dark powers having a veil to keep them from seeing in or getting in, but once in they could do pretty much whatever they want, like a one way mirror. Like a door that locks from the inside, it much harder to get into than it is to get out of

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

That Vecna was able to escape would indicate that their experiment was a failure.

Escaped ... or was set loose.

I have nothing other than that. I just wanted to quote Gandalf.

[cure]

I don't have much to contribute on this subject, but I will note that the 3.5 description of sending says:

"If the creature in question is not on the same plane of existence as you are, there is a 5% chance that the sending does not arrive. (Local conditions on other planes may worsen this chance considerably.)"

I would say that "the plane being the creation of micro-managing mystery god-beings who want their playground to remain private" would qualify as "local conditions" that would "worsen this chance considerably", possibly even to 100%. But as usual, if it helps your story, go for it.

Yes, I am beginning agree that "local conditions" indeed apply and rule out Sendings.

[tomokaicho]

Yes, I am beginning agree that "local conditions" indeed apply and rule out Sendings.

I think that is the intention. That said, it doesn't mean that you don't get any replies at all. Perhaps the DPs enjoy messing with people. Imagine this. Gustav is a man taken by the mists. A spellcaster of no small ability, he attempts a sending to his fiance back on his homeworld. Shortly thereafter, he gets a sending back. "Help me, Gustav. They have taken me. I am being held in Castle Ravenloft".

This of course is complete BS, but it does put Gustav on a collision course with Strahd.

[Mistmaster]

I like to tone down DP omnipotence a bit so I'd say sending from Ravenloft still has a 40% chance to work correctly.