Ravenloft by Gaslight

[Manofevil]

Oh yes I see it now, The seas are a different shade of gray than the mists. I guess you can't circumnavigate the core after all.

[sndwurks]

Correct. Circumnavigation is impossible, though some still attempt it.

And yes, you can wander into the Mists and wind up elsewhere. Or, at least, that is what your mind tells you. For all you know, you could have ceased to exist during your time in the Mist, and are merely filling in the blanks, before suddenly returning to existence outside of the Mists. This is why people spontaneously appear out of nowhere in the Mists, and why you can literally wind up ANYWHERE. Because, relative to nothing, everything is anything. In other words, Point A, Point B, and Point C are all effectively the same point, when Point Null is the Mists, and all you are checking is if the point is Null or has a value.

Yeah, it's kind of screwy logic, but it's the most rational explanation a scientific mind can come up with for the Mists. And as for the Vistani navigating it...

Peasant superstition. No one "navigates" the Mists.

Or so popular scientific opinion holds.

[ewancummins]

Correct. Circumnavigation is impossible, though some still attempt it.

And yes, you can wander into the Mists and wind up elsewhere. Or, at least, that is what your mind tells you. For all you know, you could have ceased to exist during your time in the Mist, and are merely filling in the blanks, before suddenly returning to existence outside of the Mists. This is why people spontaneously appear out of nowhere in the Mists, and why you can literally wind up ANYWHERE. Because, relative to nothing, everything is anything. In other words, Point A, Point B, and Point C are all effectively the same point, when Point Null is the Mists, and all you are checking is if the point is Null or has a value.

Yeah, it's kind of screwy logic, but it's the most rational explanation a scientific mind can come up with for the Mists. And as for the Vistani navigating it...

Peasant superstition. No one "navigates" the Mists.

Or so popular scientific opinion holds.

In a world with working magic, wouldn't denying magic and believing in a strict materialism be a form of 'superstition'? Why would rational, sane people not believe in things like gypsy curses, magic, monsters etc when such things have been demonstrably real for all of the demiplane's history?

Has magic suffered some kind of decline in actual power? Did the ToUD result in a dimunition of the powers of the Vistani? What changed about the world to prompt such a profound shift in the way people understand things to work?

[sndwurks]

Because there has been a decline in magic, to the point where it is nearly non-existent in most of the world. What magic is seen is either kept extremely hidden, or is quickly "debunked".

And while it was demonstrably real prior to the ToUD, the same has not been true since. Part of the culturalization of Enlightenment is a strong disbelief in the out and out supernatural. The Van Richetn Guides are regarded as something on the level of Cotton Mather's guides to hunting witches. What was thought to be magic in the past is now understood to be exaggeration and misinformation, which cannot stand up to the scrutiny of reason and education.

Magic has become very scarce, and very unreliable. Monsters are hidden. The world is solid, all the way through. And there are distinct groups aiming to keep it this way, so trying to go public with the supernatural? Is a good way to get yourself laughed at, ridiculed, and then... something unfortunate.

[ewancummins]

Because there has been a decline in magic, to the point where it is nearly non-existent in most of the world. What magic is seen is either kept extremely hidden, or is quickly "debunked".

And while it was demonstrably real prior to the ToUD, the same has not been true since. Part of the culturalization of Enlightenment is a strong disbelief in the out and out supernatural. The Van Richetn Guides are regarded as something on the level of Cotton Mather's guides to hunting witches. What was thought to be magic in the past is now understood to be exaggeration and misinformation, which cannot stand up to the scrutiny of reason and education.

Magic has become very scarce, and very unreliable. Monsters are hidden. The world is solid, all the way through. And there are distinct groups aiming to keep it this way, so trying to go public with the supernatural? Is a good way to get yourself laughed at, ridiculed, and then... something unfortunate.

Right- I figured that the ToUD was crucial to your future history.

Not to focus too much on rules, but how will the decline in magic be reflected in gameplay? It seems to me that you are going to want to severely restrict magic in order to preserve the proper feel.

[alhoon]

Well, it's your game but in a fantasy world, even enlightened and gothic, magic should play a role IMO. Not so much completely ignored but something people don't want to talk about. Like "magic pffft. I don't believe in that"... and then at home afraid of it.
The way it was in the 17th-18th century that is. Where they were burning witches while most of the scientists and nobles didn't actually believe every such report.

[sndwurks]

I am planning on keeping to the concept of the Shadow, as is presented in the d20 Modern sourcebooks. In short, the supernatural is kept hidden from the eyes of skeptics by some kind of mental shrouding effect.

And you're right on the money, Alhoon. The more educated and enlightened an individual is, the more likely they are to know that magic /is/ real, and there are those out there with it. And there are organizations practicing it. However, the opposite is true to the populace, as the more educated and enlightened they are, the more likely they are to dismiss such things. And some Force is keeping the world from knowing about it.

The Dark Powers never really left. They just... changed the plan.

[ewancummins]

I am planning on keeping to the concept of the Shadow, as is presented in the d20 Modern sourcebooks. In short, the supernatural is kept hidden from the eyes of skeptics by some kind of mental shrouding effect.

And you're right on the money, Alhoon. The more educated and enlightened an individual is, the more likely they are to know that magic /is/ real, and there are those out there with it. And there are organizations practicing it. However, the opposite is true to the populace, as the more educated and enlightened they are, the more likely they are to dismiss such things. And some Force is keeping the world from knowing about it.

The Dark Powers never really left. They just... changed the plan.

The Shadow sounds cool.

Have you considered going whole hog and running the game with D20 Modern instead of D&D 3.5?

[alhoon]

Sounds more like the veil from WoD if you ask me.
If you don't know it's something like the communal mind of humanity that can go so far as to reject sensory input. I.e. a man watching something with 4 arms throwing a fireball and burning down a building with it's inhabitants will later remember a "strange man, tall and broad" that "was waving a torch" and threw it on the house and that "fire spread quickly, in just 2 mins it has engulfed the building" (although the fireball instantly spread the fire in the whole building). The more willful and strong minded the individual (or the more he/she knows) the less the Veil affects him. Of course, too much info = madness check. Somethings you're not meant to know.

[ewancummins]

Maybe the Fraternity of Shadows is behind it all? After all- they are illusionists . They can disguise their magic as clever but non-magical illusions with the use of magic lanterns, smoke and mirrors, etc.

[sndwurks]

It's similar to the Veil, but more sinister. Whereas the Veil is a product of the collective subconscious creating a consensus reality, and most Sleepers edit the details to go about their lives easier, the Shadow (in the sense that I am using it) is more sinister. Werewolf victims come across as being mauled by a dog, because there's a lack of evidence pointing otherwise.

People exposed to blatant supernatural acts (magic, monstrous transformations, etc.) step into the Shadow. They can either accept what they see, or deny it. If they deny it, and they are strong enough, then they can almost go back to their normal lives, without ever seeing how dark and terrible the world truly is. But it will haunt their dreams. Those who accept it, and are strong enough, begin to live in the Shadow, where the supernatural will seek them out. Those who are not strong enough, in either case? Are broken, and are driven mad. Those who recover often go back to a life of denial, however.

Most monsters are either shapeshifters, illusionists, or identical to humans. The Fraternity of Shadows is very much alive and well, and are one of the agencies keeping the supernatural hidden (as knowledge of the occult is even more powerful when the rest of the world refuses to believe in it). And the plan is to run this using d20 Modern, actually, with some support from d20 Urban Arcana and d20 Past.

[alhoon]

Nice touch on the Shadow.
Sounds Lovecraftian without the slime. I think you should include some slimy monsters hidden beneath the *insert something here*. Be it beneath dreams and subconsious, beneath the ocean's floor or just beneath your floor.

Does anyone remember the cranium rats? That's a cool monster.

[sndwurks]

I remember cranium rats. Ahh, Planescape. You were fun.

And the Nightmare Lands are alive and well. They're similar to Bleutspur (which is also alive and well). They are both realms of nightmares and fevered imaginings, where terrible, inhuman things lurk, always nascent abudding with the waking world. Sometimes, people just go to sleep, and never wake up.

And since the Ildi'thaan are another organization I plan to be using, Bleutspur is necessary.

[ewancummins]

I remember cranium rats. Ahh, Planescape. You were fun.

And the Nightmare Lands are alive and well. They're similar to Bleutspur (which is also alive and well). They are both realms of nightmares and fevered imaginings, where terrible, inhuman things lurk, always nascent abudding with the waking world. Sometimes, people just go to sleep, and never wake up.

And since the Ildi'thaan are another organization I plan to be using, Bleutspur is necessary.

Are you a 'mooninite', Sndwrks?

[sndwurks]

On the Moon, ewancummins, we have advanced beyond rules and manners.

Though, I'm not sure what that has to do with things. Personally, I'm keeping the Ildi'thaan, and the Dark Delvers, because one of the first Ravenloft products I ever purchased was the old Forbidden Lore boxed set, and I've been wanting to use them for the longest time.

And some of my players think they know Ravenloft well. But, honestly, that's some pretty obscure stuff.

Shadow organizations play a key role to the setting. I have plans for the Ildi'thaan, Dark Delvers, Kargatane, Keepers of the Black Feather, the Brotherhood of the Whip, the Fraternity of Shadows, and a few others. In short, the world changed during the ToUD. And signs and portents are pointing towards another shift coming. And the power players in Shadow are fighting each other for power.