Café de Nuit

Greetings all, I'm new here so bare with me.

I recently started playing in a 3e(pathfinder) ravenloft campaign as a cleric of Ezra and have quickly found my self succumbing to several powers checks in part of my actions and bad dice rolls. My GM, who is well educated in ravenloft suggested I read up a bit more on this hellish world we've encountered but I have yet to find any extensive work on the Mists themselves.

Does anyone have any good links, or exemplary knowledge of the Mists themselves that they could iterate to me? It seems every time I try and invoke Ezra's power, or work with the mists I get screwed for lack of knowledge... My character is currently insubstantial (misty) and can see the spirits the Mists have left behind, which while kitchy and fun is starting to cause problems. A few more ignorant decisions on my part and I get to go off to my own domain, not something terribly thrilling to me.

Thanks for your help ahead of time.

TL;DR Requesting any info on the Mists of Ravenloft you may have.

Edit: Another bit of info that would be nice to get ahold of is knowledge of actual character levels and abilities granted by Ezra. The book of secrets mentions that anchorites been to be level 6 or 9 to attain certain presences in the church via powers granted, and travel through the mists as a high level priest is perfect, but maybe I'm just daft but I can't seem to find that info detailed anywhere.

Akeaka wrote:Greetings all, I'm new here so bare with me.

Welcome! Always glad to have new captives... I mean members.

I recently started playing in a 3e(pathfinder) ravenloft campaign as a cleric of Ezra and have quickly found my self succumbing to several powers checks in part of my actions and bad dice rolls. My GM, who is well educated in ravenloft suggested I read up a bit more on this hellish world we've encountered but I have yet to find any extensive work on the Mists themselves.

Well, there's a reason for that. The Mists themselves have always been mysterious, and it wasn't until Van Richten's Guide to the Mists (2005) that there was any extensive work written on them. Unfortunately, that book was never actually published, due the cancellation of the 3e line. A draft was released for free online, but is no longer publicly available.

I'm usually loathe to spoil much more for a player, but since your DM specifically told you to read up, I'll divulge a bit more. (I know that sounds a bit condescending, but many Ravenloft DMs like to slowly reveal things to their players to build suspense and to have the players empathize closer with their characters. Good roleplayers can separate their knowledge from their characters, but in a genre like horror, some feel that its better to have a visceral reaction to a character learning the horrors of the world, rather than a calculated and role-played one).

The Mists are primarily a DM tool to maintain the proper mood, which is to say gothic fantasy horror. There are some sort of intelligent beings called the Dark Powers that direct the Mists. (The only mortals who can have any effect on the Mists are Anchorites like yourself and the Vistani Gypsies). The true nature of these beings is up for debate, and only your DM can tell you what they really are in his campaign. But what is known is that they both reward and punish evildoers, and that they have certain strict rules about what constitutes "evil" (i.e. the powers check rules).

It seems every time I try and invoke Ezra's power, or work with the mists I get screwed for lack of knowledge...

This is where the warning bells start to go off for me. Without knowing more, it seems to me that either your DM is being more heavy handed than he needs to be, or you are doing some heinous stuff without thinking it's so bad.

Generally speaking, just invoking Ezra's power shouldn't cause a powers' check. Powers checks are supposed to be for doing bad stuff. Theft, torture, murder, oathbreaking, blasphemy, etc. The exception to that is necromancy. For some reason, the dark powers frown on all necromancy, even harmless seeming spells, and even when used for a good cause. (usually the dark powers care more about actions than reasons).

So what exactly have you been doing?

If it's none of the above, either you or your DM needs to get a hold of one of the Ravenloft Campaign Settings. (for 3e, either the 3.0 Ravenloft Campaign Setting or the 3.5 Ravenloft Player's Handbook would be the best bet. they are virtually the same book, and either will answer your questions.)

Edit: Another bit of info that would be nice to get ahold of is knowledge of actual character levels and abilities granted by Ezra. The book of secrets mentions that anchorites been to be level 6 or 9 to attain certain presences in the church via powers granted, and travel through the mists as a high level priest is perfect, but maybe I'm just daft but I can't seem to find that info detailed anywhere.

Well, for one thing the Book of Secrets was written for 2nd edition, so the rules in there aren't 3e compatible. For another, the 3.0/3.5 version of Anchorites was simply a priest with the Mists domain (from the RCS/RLPH books mentioned earlier). The domain granted power is the "shield of ezra". I don't have the book handy, but maybe someone will pop in with the details. (there were also a few anchorite prestige classes in Van Richten's Arsenal and Heroes of Light, but I assume you'd know if you were in one of those).

Now, I don't know what your DM is doing to Pathfinder-ize the anchorite. One of our members named brass has created a fan-made conversion called Mistfinder: http://mistfinder.blogspot.com/ but check with your DM to see if that's what he's using.

A draft was released for free online, but is no longer publicly available.

Happen to know any non-public venue that I might use to procure such a document?

This is where the warning bells start to go off for me. Without knowing more, it seems to me that either your DM is being more heavy handed than he needs to be, or you are doing some heinous stuff without thinking it's so bad.

I should have been more forthcoming in my descriptions. The two primary checks that seemed a bit off for me at the time were as follows: The casting of speak with dead, which does mention in the book as requiring a check though none of us knew it at the time, on an evil creature for the purposes of good (you mentioned actions are greater than reasons).
The second was transforming myself into a gaseous form and attempting to quell an angry mob intent on burning an old lady by representing the mists guarding her. This worked, but not as I had planned it, scaring off the villagers instead of calming them down. I hadn't realized how terrifying the mists were to the people of Ravenloft, hence my request for more info.
The latest and most recent one was our own damned faults, which picked up a check for a number the party members, was when we saw a "living" mummy in a tomb and went to send it to it's eternal rest. Apparently desecrating tombs, regardless of intention is bad. >.<

Well, for one thing the Book of Secrets was written for 2nd edition, so the rules in there aren't 3e compatible. For another, the 3.0/3.5 version of Anchorites was simply a priest with the Mists domain (from the RCS/RLPH books mentioned earlier). The domain granted power is the "shield of ezra". I don't have the book handy, but maybe someone will pop in with the details. (there were also a few anchorite prestige classes in Van Richten's Arsenal and Heroes of Light, but I assume you'd know if you were in one of those).
Now, I don't know what your DM is doing to Pathfinder-ize the anchorite. One of our members named brass has created a fan-made conversion called Mistfinder: http://mistfinder.blogspot.com/ but check with your DM to see if that's what he's using.

I took the Mists domain as one of mine, but other than that my GM has done little to convert it to pathfinder other than using the RAW for 3.0 ravenloft with a bit of tweaking. Most of the stuff we've been encountering in terms of Ezran law and priests have been stuff built on the fluff he's read from the core books and possibly the book of secrets, nothing from 2e as far as I'm aware. It's primarily been usual D&D clerics with the added machinations of the Dark Powers and superstitions. Anything else would be great to know. Where would I find the prestige classes online? I don't believe even my GM knows of these.

Two other things that come to mind are in regards to the mists that exist between domains and the relationship of the people with the mists. There hasn't been a lot covering those subjects that I have come across. (We've been doing a lot of domain crossing lately and haven't encountered them at all!)

Hello and welcome.

Regarding the borders, there are not Mists at every border, despite the way some of the maps are drawn (The one from Domains of Dread comes to mind). Crossing a border is not really noticable, it is just like crossing state lines, one minute you're in Ohio, the next you're in Indiana/ one minute you're in Mordent, the next in Dementlieu.

The exception to this is the Islands of Terror, which are completely surrounded by the Mists. To get to these remote places you would have to actually travel THROUGH the Mists, which is actually a power of higher level anchorites like the character you are playing.

The Speak with Dead definitely warranted the Powers Check, but I would need more information about your gaseous form event to see where your DM was coming from. No matter what we say here, it is still his game so the powers checks stay. The best thing to do is to embrace the opportunity to have the (failed?) checks define how you play your character. Maybe you can play him as fearful or paranoid regarding his own powers, second guessing decisions and really adding something to the character.

Or just embrace the evil, slaughter a village and become a domain lord!

Akeaka wrote:Happen to know any non-public venue that I might use to procure such a document?

I do not, though I can't imagine that it would be too hard to find with your favorite search engine. Legally, it's probably a bit of gray area, since it was once freely available but isn't any more, though personally I think you have as much right to it as people who happened to catch it when it was up.

The casting of speak with dead, which does mention in the book as requiring a check though none of us knew it at the time, on an evil creature for the purposes of good (you mentioned actions are greater than reasons).

Yeah, that's one of those quirky ones. it's necromancy, it's dark magic, it's "what man wasn't meant to know." so, powers check, though a low percentage one. Even though it was for a good cause.

The second was transforming myself into a gaseous form and attempting to quell an angry mob intent on burning an old lady by representing the mists guarding her. This worked, but not as I had planned it, scaring off the villagers instead of calming them down. I hadn't realized how terrifying the mists were to the people of Ravenloft, hence my request for more info.

This one is kind of DM prerogative. I wouldn't have called for a check for that. Yeah, people fear the mists, but scaring people doesn't really hurt them, and is preferable to fighting them off. Basically, the Mists are the unknown, the bogeyman. They are literally the edge of reality, the ends of the earth, the thing that goes bump in the night. I could see some people panic upon seeing that, but I can't see it falling into any of the power check categories.

The latest and most recent one was our own damned faults, which picked up a check for a number the party members, was when we saw a "living" mummy in a tomb and went to send it to it's eternal rest. Apparently desecrating tombs, regardless of intention is bad. >.<

Special case. desecrating tombs are a particular taboo in certain domains, specifically the egyptian-style ones. But if all you did was go in and put a mummy to rest, I wouldn't call for a check. If you defaced or stole from the tomb, that's check worthy (and maybe worth a mummy's curse as well) but slaying a mummy isn't desecrating IMHO.

Of course, for all the rules given on this, there's still a lot of DM judgement involved. Others might disagree with me.

I took the Mists domain as one of mine, but other than that my GM has done little to convert it to pathfinder other than using the RAW for 3.0 ravenloft with a bit of tweaking.

Unfortunately, that short-changes you a bit, since the Pathfinder domains are quite a bit more interesting and powerful than 3.0.

Most of the stuff we've been encountering in terms of Ezran law and priests have been stuff built on the fluff he's read from the core books and possibly the book of secrets, nothing from 2e as far as I'm aware.

Book of Secrets is the definitive source really. No one had written much about Ezra before that in 2e, and most of that article it made its way into the 3e books, since the author of the article was one of the authors of 3e.

Where would I find the prestige classes online? I don't believe even my GM knows of these.

Sorry, I don't know of anywhere that they are online. Since they were published in non-OGL books, it's pretty clear copyright-infringement to post them. (of course, it's likely someone has posted them somewhere anyway) I can tell you, though, that the names are Anchorite of the Mists from Van Richten's Arsenal and Anchorite Inquisitor and Anchorite Wanderer from Heroes of Light.

Thanks for the info guys! Appreciate it, and I also found some great info on your site, thanks for putting it all up there!

Do you happen to know what the changes if any have been proposed for the Mist Domain? THere doesn't seem to be any relics in the book you mentioned for pathfinder.

Try here for Van Richten's Guide to the Mists: http://www.mediafire.com/?guddaqdcgwdpueo

Also you might want to read up on powers checks and redemption in Heroes of Light.

The Book of Secrets is available in the Library section on this site.

Also check out the Mistfinder pdf for a Pathfinder conversion of Ravenloft stuff including the Mist domain.

The Giamarga wrote:The Book of Secrets is available in the Library section on this site.

Actually, it's not. It's at www.kargatane.com, though it seems he already has it.

Thanks Ron.

WOO! Thanks for pointing to a working location for "Van Richten's Guide to the Mists". I just learned this was released an hour ago, found this forum, and bingo bango! SUCCESS!

I absolutely loved the Van Richten series. I highly recommend people here seek them out (Ebay if you have to) and read them in published order. Not entirely important, but the sub-story for Van Richten as a Ravenloft Personality within those guides actually culminate into a conclusion with the Guide to the Vistani.

AWESOME stuff!

@theFoS: Can't the FoS host the VRGttM file here? Anybody know any contacts at WW/S&S to ask for permission?

Through the years, we've asked numerous request to WW (well, not that numerous, mind you, may be once or twice a year), and the answer we got is "ask WotC, we do not have the authority to allow this".

When we asked WotC, they never bothered to answer, or they said "ask WW".

I think nobody was willing to allow anything because of the license deal.

We are discussing the possibility to host this netbook, as well as the Web enhancement files of the Ravenloft WW period. We feel it is sad for the authors and the fans that they are no longuer available because WW isn't into RL anymore (license deal ended and WotC went elsewhere), and it is bad because it sends fans to p2p sharing websites to get these.

So maybe we'll give it a try and host this netbook and WEs, and see what happens. The reason we haven't done it yet is that it is absolutely contrary to our copyright policy. But we could make an exception to save these from limbo.

Joël

Done!

Joël, we've actually had the Web Enhancements in the Vault for who-knows-how-long and haven't heard a peep from ArtHaus or Wotc. Let's hope the same holds for the VRGttM.