Back in the saddle; Ravenloft 2E

[BedrockBrendan]

I am new to the forum, though I've been a reader of Fraternity of Shadows for some time.

Thinking of starting a new Ravenloft campaign after about a 7 year break. Started playing Ravenloft when the boxed set came out. Played all through the 90s and the early aughts, ending in about 2003/4. To help rekindle some of my initial passion for the setting, I decided my new campaign will be 2nd edition, using the old Realm of Terror Boxed set.

Curious if anyone has gone back to 2E with Ravenloft, and what their thoughts might be. I think the reason I stopped playing Ravenloft was because 3E just didn't seem to fit as well as the previous edition for the flavor of the setting (though I did love 3E).

[ewancummins]

Gone back? I'm sure that some guys never left!

My tabletop D&D games are usually run with the good old B/X rules, Moldvay and Cook. I haven't run AD&D in years, although I own a pretty fair number of 2E and 1E books. The Black Box remains the definitive treatment of the Ravenloft setting for me. I still use it as a reference in my ongoing 3E PbP campaign.

[G man]

Yes, my friends and I are some of those who never left 2nd edition (for very long anyway). My buddies and I find 2nd edition to be our favorite.This is the edition that we all learned and enjoyed through our adolescent years. However we are not lazy, we decided this is more suited to our particular syle of play which is less combat oriented and more involved character development. I have purchased about half of the Ravenloft 3rd edition material if for no other reason than to support the setting. I own all of the 2nd edition products except for Forged of Darkness and the Requiem series. I do plan on purchasing the 4th edtition version whenever it is released. A couple friends from my inner circle play fourth edition with a separate group but are inclined to agree that when it comes to Ravenloft, 2nd edtion is where its at.

[alhoon]

Gone back? I'm sure that some guys never left!

That.

However, I was disgusted with 2E arbitary rules and numerous pitfalls. A wizard with 5 strength breaking open a door that a 16 str fighter couldn't open. A giant with str 20 that if you put math to it, wouldn't be strong enough to rise from the ground. That 18/50 thing. Strength being next to useless unless you had at least 17 for a single +1/+1. Max spells/lvl in spellbook. "Sorry friend, you're human, you can ONLY multiclass from fighter to wizard if you're a genius.". "Elf paladins? Halfling wizards? No. What do you mean why not? They're genetically incapable of that!". Demihumans hitting max at certain levels and doom talk about "if you want to remove the level cap, then the world is under demihuman dominion". +1 to a d20 on a check/save being considered uber. Save vs paralysis beind different than save vs poison. Crafting magic items costs 1 con and you HAVE to be the ubercaster to have permanency, an 8th lvl spell. Monsters with stats like HD: 4+1. As if 1 hp would make an impact. "Skills" that actually included what later became feats. Int/wis or level of the caster not affecting how powerful his spells were. Wizards didn't get bonus spells from high intel.
I could go on.

I never played a "clean" 2nd AD&D. It was too crappy, we always used a ton of house rules.

[woodsdarkman]

I really never left 2E as well. I use the 2E modules and products (I have them all) but I use alot of the 3E rules and stuff. Maybe about 50/50. I use the 3E products to keep the setting updated and to progress the timeline. On my campaigns we always start before the grand conjunction and work are way to the present and stop just before the time of unparalled darkness.
My players experience the Grand Conjunction, Requim, The return of Azalin, the rise of the Dukkar, the Death of Van Ritchen, and the forming of the second core. If my player's characters get to old then their offspring continue for them orthey find some magical way to prolong their life.

[Don Fernando]

Same here, I still love 2nd Ed, not much for the rules but for the amounts of material we got from it. I tried 3rd. but frankly after reading Champions of Darkness, I went back to the old 2nd Ed. and never looked back ever since.

[Brandi]

Same here, I still love 2nd Ed, not much for the rules but for the amounts of material we got from it. I tried 3rd. but frankly after reading Champions of Darkness, I went back to the old 2nd Ed. and never looked back ever since.

That's, uh, sort of like blowing off the career of John Wayne after seeing The Conqueror. If nothing else, you may have missed some interesting stuff in the Gazetteers.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Same here, I still love 2nd Ed, not much for the rules but for the amounts of material we got from it. I tried 3rd. but frankly after reading Champions of Darkness, I went back to the old 2nd Ed. and never looked back ever since.

That's, uh, sort of like blowing off the career of John Wayne after seeing The Conqueror. If nothing else, you may have missed some interesting stuff in the Gazetteers.

Yes, you had the bad luck of choosing literally the worst of the 3e line judge it on. (and one so different from the rest of them as to be not even close to representative.)

[Don Fernando]

Same here, I still love 2nd Ed, not much for the rules but for the amounts of material we got from it. I tried 3rd. but frankly after reading Champions of Darkness, I went back to the old 2nd Ed. and never looked back ever since.

That's, uh, sort of like blowing off the career of John Wayne after seeing The Conqueror. If nothing else, you may have missed some interesting stuff in the Gazetteers.

Yeah well, one bad move and it can all go to hell you know, and IMHO CoD was a really bad move.

I do own a copy of all Gazeteers, all Van Richten Guides, and CoD and HoL. The story line is ok. Never did like it much though. The whole S plot was intriguing at first but got repetitive and boring by the end of Gaz V. It rose too many questions, too many mysteries and solved few of them. Many things were left like "Tune up for next Gaz to find out the outcome...". The fact that the line was cancelled with the main plot line half way to the end, only added insult to injury, leaving many things in the air.

Oh well enough with the rant, that's just me and in no way I'm saying 3e was a poor attempt to revive the setting (I love both VRGs), it has its ups and downs. Summed up though I remain a 2nd Ed fan all the way, and 3rd Ed is just the "misty" alternate future for my campaign.

[alhoon]

I do own a copy of all Gazeteers, all Van Richten Guides, and CoD and HoL. The story line is ok. Never did like it much though. The whole S plot was intriguing at first but got repetitive and boring by the end of Gaz V. It rose too many questions, too many mysteries and solved few of them. Many things were left like "Tune up for next Gaz to find out the outcome...". The fact that the line was cancelled with the main plot line half way to the end, only added insult to injury, leaving many things in the air.

I would agree on the Gaz thing. They were piling mysteries and in the end, we were left without answers for most of the questions.
PS. I'm the guy that buys the sequel to a book, reads the finale and then turns to the first page. I've hardly read a book's 5th chapter the last 10 years without reading the last page first. Imagine how would not knowing any answer would do to me.

IMO, the best books were VRGtWD followed by that book with stories and legends.

[woodsdarkman]

The best part of 3E was the Gazetters. The VR guides were good but the Gazetters were the backbone of 3E. I do think we were done a great injustice by Ravenloft getting canned right in the middle of a great storyline which we all know was going to advance the history of Ravenloft. I still have resentment over that.

[Deewun]

I will play 2nd until I die.

[Paladyn]

Actually I have stared my FR campaign to check, if third edition is as good as it appeared to be. After two and half of year, using 3.0, 3,5 and Pathfinder rules sets I find it way too complicated and restricting me as a DM to my taste. I tried 4th edition and liked it but some of my friends do not like so I may go back to AD&D we know, love and customized. On a side note, recently explained friend of mine how Thac0 worked and found out I still remember it very well. Perhaps there is special brain part devoted to Thac0/Ac correlations it is located in that part, where women have cosmetics synapse ).

[Deewun]

I heard lots of people complain about THAC0 while in college trying to get a group together. I never understood why folks found it so difficult. It's just a simple formula. And in the long run, you don't even need to know it if the GM just tells you what you need to roll to hit.

Course, the largest complainer was a Min/Maxer that wanted to be in 3.5 so he could cleave the world in half by level 10. So it could be that.

[alhoon]

After two and half of year, using 3.0, 3,5 and Pathfinder rules sets I find it way too complicated and restricting me as a DM to my taste. I tried 4th edition and liked it

You found 3.5 restrictive and 4th edition not?!