Have you GMed something into your adventure and later regreted it because it caused a level of awkwardness or left someone uncomfortable?
Have you had to roleplay something thrown by your GM that felt unfun?
In my AD&D campaign back in the day I was used to run quite a few horror themed adventures, but I'm new to ravenloft as a GM. I'm looking forward on feedback on possible "classical GM mistakes" in horror games, specially from you veterans.
I used to push my players forward quite a bit (nasty and heavy psichological stuff) and, despite some feeling fear from the dark in the room corners, the dancing shadows cast by the candles and chills on their spine, they told me to keep on. What is your view on this?
Feel free to tell tales about experiences of all sorts. Debate about how much is too much is also possible (unless it deviates from forum rules, dunno...).
Gothic Horror: how hard can gamers take in?
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crazybantha
- Conspirator
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I remember very early on in the first Ravenloft game I ever played. I don't even remember what was going on or why, but our female bard had been separated from us and caught outside, at night. A man approached her and she asked for help in finding her friends. The GM got an evil glint in his eye and told her the man attacked, grabbing her and tearing open her shirt in the struggle...
The face of every girl at the table went blank at that point (there were three of us, no jokes about how we don't exist). I recall very clearly thinking in the awkward pause that followed, "He wouldn't..."
"...would he?"
Well, he didn't. It all turned out to be some crazy dream sequence and we woke up about five seconds later. But it was a moment that has stuck with me for over five years, because the GM is a friend and I didn't expect anything like that to come up, even as more an implied threat than a reality. (It never did again.)
Anyway, I think the moral of this story and most important bit is that players will take what you give them, IF everyone's on the same page - that's been the root of every problem I've experienced with gaming. We've had players backstabbing players who didn't want to be backstabbed, players wandering off on their own for roleplaying reasons, players trying to forcibly drag back other players because wandering off was a bad idea, players holding grudges for being permanently crippled due to critical hit houserules, all because we all had a different idea of what "Ravenloft" meant. Sadly, quite a few members of my club won't even touch the setting anymore - they learned that Ravenloft meant "you can't win" and don't think that sounds like a fun time.
Obviously you can't do this for every scenario ("Hey Bob, would you be okay if, hypothetically, a vampire dominated you and made you kill your family?), and not everyone knows what they look for in a fun game, or knows what their limits are until they hit them. But a first session discussion would probably help.
If I were to draw a single line, I'd say "Don't mock your players." Sounds simple, sure, but sometimes you have to catch yourself from saying "Come ON guys, this is easy" or "What were you THINKING?" I don't think I've seen anything cause a grudge form faster.
The face of every girl at the table went blank at that point (there were three of us, no jokes about how we don't exist). I recall very clearly thinking in the awkward pause that followed, "He wouldn't..."
"...would he?"
Well, he didn't. It all turned out to be some crazy dream sequence and we woke up about five seconds later. But it was a moment that has stuck with me for over five years, because the GM is a friend and I didn't expect anything like that to come up, even as more an implied threat than a reality. (It never did again.)
Anyway, I think the moral of this story and most important bit is that players will take what you give them, IF everyone's on the same page - that's been the root of every problem I've experienced with gaming. We've had players backstabbing players who didn't want to be backstabbed, players wandering off on their own for roleplaying reasons, players trying to forcibly drag back other players because wandering off was a bad idea, players holding grudges for being permanently crippled due to critical hit houserules, all because we all had a different idea of what "Ravenloft" meant. Sadly, quite a few members of my club won't even touch the setting anymore - they learned that Ravenloft meant "you can't win" and don't think that sounds like a fun time.
Obviously you can't do this for every scenario ("Hey Bob, would you be okay if, hypothetically, a vampire dominated you and made you kill your family?), and not everyone knows what they look for in a fun game, or knows what their limits are until they hit them. But a first session discussion would probably help.
If I were to draw a single line, I'd say "Don't mock your players." Sounds simple, sure, but sometimes you have to catch yourself from saying "Come ON guys, this is easy" or "What were you THINKING?" I don't think I've seen anything cause a grudge form faster.
"No, but evil is still being — Is having reason — Being reasonable! Mousie understands? Is always being reason. Is punishing world for not being... Like in head. Is always reason. World should be different, is reason."
I find Ravenloft, and horror games in particular, only work if the players are willing to play along. I've played with groups that really got into the gothic atmosphere and really had a good time with the game, with other gamers I've found the game fell flat.
Although I never had players feel awkward or uncomfortable about a game, I have had moments where players expressed their discontent with the the way the game was set up. I remember particularly one game that used the Nightmare Court. Since the Nightmare dreamscapes took place in a world without rules, situations could change minute to minute. Although I felt it would be a freaky atmosphere (indeed, another group really got into nightmare sequences), the players got angry at the rather arbitrary rules and we ended up dropping the game.
With any rpg, make sure the players are on board with something before running with it. A game that is no longer fun will not last.
Although I never had players feel awkward or uncomfortable about a game, I have had moments where players expressed their discontent with the the way the game was set up. I remember particularly one game that used the Nightmare Court. Since the Nightmare dreamscapes took place in a world without rules, situations could change minute to minute. Although I felt it would be a freaky atmosphere (indeed, another group really got into nightmare sequences), the players got angry at the rather arbitrary rules and we ended up dropping the game.
With any rpg, make sure the players are on board with something before running with it. A game that is no longer fun will not last.
In the darkness of night look toward the stars
This one isn't Ravenloft, or any type of gothic horror, but I once tried something a bit different with my group that fell very flat and took a huge chunk of time out of our regularly scheduled game.
While out determining the cause of the latest impending world-ending disaster, the group found an old scroll written in an ancient language that they needed to translate. Instead of a few decipher rolls and a reading, I did it a bit different. I had written the text out on my computer, then changed the text to a symbol font I had found online, printed it, then handed it out (yeah, I kept it in English to make what I had planned a bit easier). After they looked at it, I allowed a handful of Decipher Script rolls. Successes meant that they could choose a symbol and I would tell them what letter it represented. To make sure everyone could participate, I allowed those without the skill a fewer amount of intelligence checks at a higher DC. After all of that, over half of the symbols weren't translated and they had to sit down and try and figure them out using substitution and word recognition. As it turns out, only one of my group is really good at that sort of thing. Once the rest found out they weren't able to do it as quickly as him, they all left the table for other pursuits until he was done. Once he finished, everyone came back and we continued, though at that point, interest for the night had waned a bit until I threw in an unplanned battle royale to get everyone back in it. The funny part? The guy who did the work ended up learning that new alphabet and could read anything written with it for a time. He wasn't happy about that.
Things I learned?
1. Check with the group before doing something like that. I thought they would like the change of pace from the usual intense combat that I thought was getting dull, but it turns out that combat is something they love and it had never been boring for them.
2. When making a creation myth that provides clues to the current situation the group is facing that is also written in a completely foreign alphabet, don't make it seven pages long. It would have been much better had I at least shorted the initial scroll and then provided them with additional scrolls that would then be automatically translated.
While out determining the cause of the latest impending world-ending disaster, the group found an old scroll written in an ancient language that they needed to translate. Instead of a few decipher rolls and a reading, I did it a bit different. I had written the text out on my computer, then changed the text to a symbol font I had found online, printed it, then handed it out (yeah, I kept it in English to make what I had planned a bit easier). After they looked at it, I allowed a handful of Decipher Script rolls. Successes meant that they could choose a symbol and I would tell them what letter it represented. To make sure everyone could participate, I allowed those without the skill a fewer amount of intelligence checks at a higher DC. After all of that, over half of the symbols weren't translated and they had to sit down and try and figure them out using substitution and word recognition. As it turns out, only one of my group is really good at that sort of thing. Once the rest found out they weren't able to do it as quickly as him, they all left the table for other pursuits until he was done. Once he finished, everyone came back and we continued, though at that point, interest for the night had waned a bit until I threw in an unplanned battle royale to get everyone back in it. The funny part? The guy who did the work ended up learning that new alphabet and could read anything written with it for a time. He wasn't happy about that.
Things I learned?
1. Check with the group before doing something like that. I thought they would like the change of pace from the usual intense combat that I thought was getting dull, but it turns out that combat is something they love and it had never been boring for them.
2. When making a creation myth that provides clues to the current situation the group is facing that is also written in a completely foreign alphabet, don't make it seven pages long. It would have been much better had I at least shorted the initial scroll and then provided them with additional scrolls that would then be automatically translated.
Most stories from the Gothic literature period never explicitly had lewd or even violent events explained out. They were indirectly addressed to remain proper. The details were left to the imagination.
I mean no offense, but having horrible things happen to PC's and turning the game into a meat grinder does not Gothic horror make. This is why Ravenloft has a 'bad' reputation with many DnD players- DM's often lack the subtlety the setting requires. Appall your players with slowly revealed depredations- read as much horror literature from the 1700's, 1800's and early 1900's as you can to better learn how to do this.
I've found that the main point to keeping players happy to always give them a fair chance at mitigating negative consequences. Players hate feeling 'forced' or not having partial control over their PC's.
Anyway, the main point of this post is that I feel people should reevaluate what they think Gothic horror is in DnD. It is in no way incompatable with retention of players, even mainstream ones. From the posts, it seems that people are confusing a subtle, disturbing and relatable horror with what looks like modern 'shock/gore' (I refuse to call it horror; terror is more appropriate).
I mean no offense, but having horrible things happen to PC's and turning the game into a meat grinder does not Gothic horror make. This is why Ravenloft has a 'bad' reputation with many DnD players- DM's often lack the subtlety the setting requires. Appall your players with slowly revealed depredations- read as much horror literature from the 1700's, 1800's and early 1900's as you can to better learn how to do this.
I've found that the main point to keeping players happy to always give them a fair chance at mitigating negative consequences. Players hate feeling 'forced' or not having partial control over their PC's.
Anyway, the main point of this post is that I feel people should reevaluate what they think Gothic horror is in DnD. It is in no way incompatable with retention of players, even mainstream ones. From the posts, it seems that people are confusing a subtle, disturbing and relatable horror with what looks like modern 'shock/gore' (I refuse to call it horror; terror is more appropriate).
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Rotipher of the FoS
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The best advice I can think of to offer is to test out any potential change of pace/tone with a one-shot adventure, before you go all-out and make it a campaign-wide thing. By watching their reactions, and always asking them how they felt about each game-session's events afterward, you'll learn what they're able to put up with and what makes them more uncomfortable than thrilled.
If your players haven't tried Ravenloft before, test the waters with a suspenseful horror-themed adventure for conventional D&D characters. If you're considering a foray to Dominia or some other psychological-horror scenario, play out a game session with a mind-warping theme ("adventures" that turn out to be dreams are good) first. Don't stick a doppelganger or mind-controlled ringer into the party until you've had a trusted NPC betray the PCs first, to see how offended they are by such tactics. If a puzzle needs to be solved OOC, either try an easy one first, or hand it out near the end of the game-session so the players can think about it between games, instead of under pressure; if not all of them get it finished before the next session, make a note that those people might be bored or frustrated by puzzles.
That should help you avoid taking the campaign in directions that won't please your players, where fantastic elements are concerned. And by all means, don't introduce real-world mature subject matter (sexual assault, child abuse, etc) until you've checked with them OOC that they're okay with that sort of thing intruding on their escapism.
If your players haven't tried Ravenloft before, test the waters with a suspenseful horror-themed adventure for conventional D&D characters. If you're considering a foray to Dominia or some other psychological-horror scenario, play out a game session with a mind-warping theme ("adventures" that turn out to be dreams are good) first. Don't stick a doppelganger or mind-controlled ringer into the party until you've had a trusted NPC betray the PCs first, to see how offended they are by such tactics. If a puzzle needs to be solved OOC, either try an easy one first, or hand it out near the end of the game-session so the players can think about it between games, instead of under pressure; if not all of them get it finished before the next session, make a note that those people might be bored or frustrated by puzzles.
That should help you avoid taking the campaign in directions that won't please your players, where fantastic elements are concerned. And by all means, don't introduce real-world mature subject matter (sexual assault, child abuse, etc) until you've checked with them OOC that they're okay with that sort of thing intruding on their escapism.
"Who [u]cares[/u] what the Dark Powers are? They're [i]bastards![/i] That's all I need to know of them." -- Crow
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crazybantha
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Was the tearing of the blouse arbitrary? Did the NPC simply did it, without a check?Isabella wrote:(...) all because we all had a different idea of what "Ravenloft" meant. Sadly, quite a few members of my club won't even touch the setting anymore - they learned that Ravenloft meant "you can't win" and don't think that sounds like a fun time.
You made me think how would I react if a similar thing happened to my character (a prison rape, for example). It'd feel very strange. Not overly shocking - that's just me, and I realize that -, but I definitively understand it can be very out of place for anyone, mainly because it actually feels like a "rape", in the sense of a character being powerless against arbitrary narrative and, most importantly, in the sense of feeling your character's intimacy being invaded in a deep way.
Invading character intimacy can be tricky in a lot of ways, I guess, because not all invasions are taken IC-only, no matter how well a player can think apart from his character. I mean, we relate to it like an actor to his most important character. If a script is static, it's ok to try to go through what the character goes, from a theatrical POV, but if the script is uncertain and dependant on strangers' decisions, like in an RPG, it becomes much harder and, quite possibly, problematic.
Thanks for the input. I'll make sure to allways use rules from the start in such "unlawful" places.Shadow wrote:Although I felt it would be a freaky atmosphere (indeed, another group really got into nightmare sequences), the players got angry at the rather arbitrary rules and we ended up dropping the game.
You know what, I'm realizing my players are just like that. They're not solely combat-oriented, but every adventures must have a good dose of strategy gaming (except we don't use minis, heh).Ornum wrote:1. Check with the group before doing something like that. I thought they would like the change of pace from the usual intense combat that I thought was getting dull, but it turns out that combat is something they love and it had never been boring for them.
I did used puzzles once, with a few ability and skill checks for hints, and they enjoyed it a bit (felt like a totally new thing for them, lol), but I realized it's not a thing to throw them much.
If you're saying what gothic horror is, I know what you mean and generally agree. If you're saying how the game should be played, I don't think we'd have an answer.Archedius wrote:Anyway, the main point of this post is that I feel people should reevaluate what they think Gothic horror is in DnD. It is in no way incompatable with retention of players, even mainstream ones. From the posts, it seems that people are confusing a subtle, disturbing and relatable horror with what looks like modern 'shock/gore' (I refuse to call it horror; terror is more appropriate).
I'm not sure if RL is so digestible to the average D&D player. The sanity system is over-the-top, IMO (I mean for the average person, not for me). I do agree that, on the gothic half, people should feel ok. I always compare it to tragedy. People are ok with tragedy. But the horror half would be the hard part. Players who avoid the setting do it for the second half, not the first.
Unfortunately, I won't have much time to enjoy the literature, but I'll research as best I can to implement the atmosphere. Cause I'm very into it and I want to raise the scale on the "gothic" part. I consider myself well introduced to the theme (I played at RL and Vampire tables for quite some time, plus I have a curious nature, so the theme became increasingly tasteful), and going deeper will help a lot at tailoring villains and adventures, and hopefully serving as a source of inspiration.
So many ideas, thanks. I'll make sure to ask them for feedback like you said. I think it'll be important to keep a receptive posture, so they feel invited to tell me things.Rotipher of the FoS wrote:That should help you avoid taking the campaign in directions that won't please your players, where fantastic elements are concerned. .
We're friends since way back, so I think I have an idea on their psichological profile. The suspicious NPC idea is genious, I'll use it for sure if I ever want their characters to be betrayed. And yes, I'm trying to be as mindful as possible about real world subjects. I think I'm actually being overzealous, but it's better that way then to screw things up and having to correct them. I'm farily confident overall.
What I'm also looking for is advice like the one I saw in another thread, on GMs making the PCs past a lie and if that's fun or not. I have my mind made up on that, I'm just giving an example...
My experience wasn't with Ravenloft, but I still think it salient.
Waaaay back in my college days, after I'd been RPing about a year, I was invited to join a campaign run by an older gentleman with a doctorate in Theater who had an amazing rep as a DM (fairly newish little game called Vampire: The Masquerade...
). About midway through the second story arc, he had an NPC start stalking my character, in a "lovesick mage geek with no social skills" sort of way.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, a would-be suitor of mine took our ending very badly and started being a similar problem, including bandying the occasional threat in the company of others. This being the early '90s, stalking wasn't understood the way it was today, so there wasn't much to do until something really overt happened. I had several fighting men of our local SCA chapter on speed-dial, ready to walk me just about anywhere in our little college town or provide a looming presence at parties he might be at, which helped a great deal.
Now I said this was an invite-only game; the three other players were all RP veterans, the DM's games were some of the best, and I was a novice who was very aware of how lucky I was. I dreaded the idea of being thought of as a problem or a wimp, getting a reputation as one and being asked to leave the game. I soldiered on for about two months until one evening my car died in the cold and I had to ask my DM to take me back to my dorm. On the way, he mentioned politely that I had seemed a little withdrawn lately in the game and asked was everything okay. I took a big breath and told him everything in a rush -- about my real-life stalker, how going to the game was just adding to the torment, that I was worried about being considered a problem, that I didn't want to make trouble, etc. After I had let it out, he proceeded to read me the Riot Act, but in a gentle fashion -- why on earth hadn't I told him this particular story was bothering me?! He said he would never force me to continue something that I was clearly uncomfortable with, nor did he think I was a problem; after all, it wasn't my fault that the worlds collided. Riot Act done, he asked me how I wanted to handle it. The following week, we hashed out what was too far and what was acceptable, and what I wanted to see happen (in my case, I wanted it to simply fade away -- I did not want to get into a death match or the like). And that was what happened. The NPC reappeared much later, but at arm's length and real life had gone on in such a way that I could handle it without grief.
So, here's what all this taught me--
* If you're a player and you run into something that really, truly bothers you, chances are your DM may not realize it. DMs are clever, but not mind-readers. My DM turned out to be an amazing guy for handling this, but it would have never happened if I hadn't told him.
* If you're a DM and you're venturing into R-rating territory, keep a weather eye on your players and be prepared to switch gears, scale back, whatever. If we're all here to have fun and tell a story, how much fun can it be when you're forced? Yes, talk and ask how everyone enjoyed themselves and pay attention to the answers.
And that's what I have to say about that for now.
Waaaay back in my college days, after I'd been RPing about a year, I was invited to join a campaign run by an older gentleman with a doctorate in Theater who had an amazing rep as a DM (fairly newish little game called Vampire: The Masquerade...
). About midway through the second story arc, he had an NPC start stalking my character, in a "lovesick mage geek with no social skills" sort of way. Meanwhile, back in the real world, a would-be suitor of mine took our ending very badly and started being a similar problem, including bandying the occasional threat in the company of others. This being the early '90s, stalking wasn't understood the way it was today, so there wasn't much to do until something really overt happened. I had several fighting men of our local SCA chapter on speed-dial, ready to walk me just about anywhere in our little college town or provide a looming presence at parties he might be at, which helped a great deal.
Now I said this was an invite-only game; the three other players were all RP veterans, the DM's games were some of the best, and I was a novice who was very aware of how lucky I was. I dreaded the idea of being thought of as a problem or a wimp, getting a reputation as one and being asked to leave the game. I soldiered on for about two months until one evening my car died in the cold and I had to ask my DM to take me back to my dorm. On the way, he mentioned politely that I had seemed a little withdrawn lately in the game and asked was everything okay. I took a big breath and told him everything in a rush -- about my real-life stalker, how going to the game was just adding to the torment, that I was worried about being considered a problem, that I didn't want to make trouble, etc. After I had let it out, he proceeded to read me the Riot Act, but in a gentle fashion -- why on earth hadn't I told him this particular story was bothering me?! He said he would never force me to continue something that I was clearly uncomfortable with, nor did he think I was a problem; after all, it wasn't my fault that the worlds collided. Riot Act done, he asked me how I wanted to handle it. The following week, we hashed out what was too far and what was acceptable, and what I wanted to see happen (in my case, I wanted it to simply fade away -- I did not want to get into a death match or the like). And that was what happened. The NPC reappeared much later, but at arm's length and real life had gone on in such a way that I could handle it without grief.
So, here's what all this taught me--
* If you're a player and you run into something that really, truly bothers you, chances are your DM may not realize it. DMs are clever, but not mind-readers. My DM turned out to be an amazing guy for handling this, but it would have never happened if I hadn't told him.
* If you're a DM and you're venturing into R-rating territory, keep a weather eye on your players and be prepared to switch gears, scale back, whatever. If we're all here to have fun and tell a story, how much fun can it be when you're forced? Yes, talk and ask how everyone enjoyed themselves and pay attention to the answers.
And that's what I have to say about that for now.
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crazybantha
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I'm playing as a PC in a RL group and we had an experience with discomforted player about R-rated content recently.Griselda wrote:So, here's what all this taught me--
* If you're a player and you run into something that really, truly bothers you, chances are your DM may not realize it. DMs are clever, but not mind-readers. My DM turned out to be an amazing guy for handling this, but it would have never happened if I hadn't told him.
* If you're a DM and you're venturing into R-rating territory, keep a weather eye on your players and be prepared to switch gears, scale back, whatever. If we're all here to have fun and tell a story, how much fun can it be when you're forced? Yes, talk and ask how everyone enjoyed themselves and pay attention to the answers.
And that's what I have to say about that for now.
Our characters are all outsiders and one of them's a female monk from the Sex Goddess Temple - he plays her like and acolyte who corrupts society through indiscriminate sex (I believe there's a PrC like that for Kali worshippers).
One of the players is a newcomer who happens to play a child who the Dark Powers inserted in a serial killer's body. So his character is like "hey, uncle Príamo, we teached those bad guys a lesson, didn't we?" but with a man's voice.
So the uber-lawful cleric sets himself to "cure" him by setting up the guy with the monk in a closed room. The next moment everyone at the table was joking about the situation and having fun, except the one player, who was becoming ever defensive. We didn't see that, so we're making jokes, and then he interrupts everyone with "if we're lowering the bar further, I'll leave the game immediately". We were baffled. Not because of his convictions, but because we didn't see he wasn't having a good time as we were (we though he was simply playing IC, nothing more).
Fortunately, we all apologized, got in agreement and moved on. Bottom line is, it wasn't a disastrous situation, it was just one of those things that can happen at any table and everyone must have a level of maturity to accept that everyone's different and should respect each other. And Ravenloft, being a more mature setting, can make those situations more often.
PS: the monk 'renewed' herself and now is Exalted, good intentioned and all, lol.
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Dion of the Fraternity
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Georg Kristianokov
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I tend to avoid sexual situations in my games. Not because I'm prudish and "puritanical", but because I have yet to see a sexual situation in a game that didn't devolve into innapropriate comments and/or jokes. So when such situations come up in a game, I always have the characters go to the bedroom and "fade to black".
Bottom line...sexuality is a very sensitive topic, especially if it deals with things such as fetishes and rape. As such, only bring it up AFTER talking to the players and making sure they are ok with it.
Bottom line...sexuality is a very sensitive topic, especially if it deals with things such as fetishes and rape. As such, only bring it up AFTER talking to the players and making sure they are ok with it.
In the darkness of night look toward the stars
Traditional gothic horror doesn't even have explicit instances of that sort. In some stories it's hinted at, but that's it- the point of even including that in a story is to establish an underlying sense of past brutality and degeneration from civility.
Try approaching themes like this as you would a horror monster. You don't throw one right at the players- they won't be scared. You hint at it, give them suggestions of its nature based on subtle clues. At the end, IF you reveal it- there's that much more buildup and thought on the part of the PCs.
To paraphrase Ann Radcliffe, horror is a gradual dread realization of the gravity of a situation. Terror is a shocking event that paralyzes the senses. There's a large difference here: peoples thoughts lead to horror, their senses take in terror. Make your players think.
Try looking at horror stories as dark mysteries. There are often similar structures between the two and both involve thought on the part of protagonists (PC's). This thought allows you to both empower the PC's with a sense of 'control' and stay true to horror at the same time.
Try approaching themes like this as you would a horror monster. You don't throw one right at the players- they won't be scared. You hint at it, give them suggestions of its nature based on subtle clues. At the end, IF you reveal it- there's that much more buildup and thought on the part of the PCs.
To paraphrase Ann Radcliffe, horror is a gradual dread realization of the gravity of a situation. Terror is a shocking event that paralyzes the senses. There's a large difference here: peoples thoughts lead to horror, their senses take in terror. Make your players think.
Try looking at horror stories as dark mysteries. There are often similar structures between the two and both involve thought on the part of protagonists (PC's). This thought allows you to both empower the PC's with a sense of 'control' and stay true to horror at the same time.
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Zettaijin
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For all the claims of clever Ravenloft DM causing fear through a shared oral narrative, the fact is most DMs just aren't skilled enough and plenty of players are, at best, humouring the DM's intentions by "playing" scared.
There are times when unsavoury situations are all that remain to instill fear and possibly loathing in your players.
Still, sometimes, players face tragedies that may be reflected by usually mundane in-game situations. Death, for example, is one of those tragic events which often goes rather unnoticed in horror-themed role playing games due to the very nature of the beast: without death, the game aspect would somehow be lacking in challenge (face it, loss of your PC's life is the D&D equivalent of the "game over" screen) while on the thematic side of things, death is omnipresent in all things horror.
Countless anonymous and completely hapless Ravenloft red shirts have lost their lives to Harkon Lukas, Strahd, Azalin and any number of darklords. Heck, Malken's had a good run so far hasn't he?
Yet does the average DM really stop and ask players if certain types of death or scenarios involving death "hit too close to home" as they say?
I feel there are no taboos worth protecting in "realistic" role playing games but there certainly are more effective and appropriate ways of using shocking situations. Such potent ammunition shouldn't go to waste...
There are times when unsavoury situations are all that remain to instill fear and possibly loathing in your players.
Still, sometimes, players face tragedies that may be reflected by usually mundane in-game situations. Death, for example, is one of those tragic events which often goes rather unnoticed in horror-themed role playing games due to the very nature of the beast: without death, the game aspect would somehow be lacking in challenge (face it, loss of your PC's life is the D&D equivalent of the "game over" screen) while on the thematic side of things, death is omnipresent in all things horror.
Countless anonymous and completely hapless Ravenloft red shirts have lost their lives to Harkon Lukas, Strahd, Azalin and any number of darklords. Heck, Malken's had a good run so far hasn't he?
Yet does the average DM really stop and ask players if certain types of death or scenarios involving death "hit too close to home" as they say?
I feel there are no taboos worth protecting in "realistic" role playing games but there certainly are more effective and appropriate ways of using shocking situations. Such potent ammunition shouldn't go to waste...
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High Priest Mikhal
- Evil Genius
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After the events of the Twentieth Century--do I really need to go into details?--a lot of folks have become jaded. Never before has humanity had such a close up and gruesome look at the horrors of reality: brutal crimes, war, genocide, plague, famine, the list goes on. Society has lost a lot of the innocence it had in previous centuries. For a generation raised on CNN's twenty-four hour coverage of wars around the world, video games where you can maim and torture your enemies, and where the evening news is borderline snuff porn, people become desensitized just to cope.Archedius wrote:Traditional gothic horror doesn't even have explicit instances of that sort. In some stories it's hinted at, but that's it- the point of even including that in a story is to establish an underlying sense of past brutality and degeneration from civility.
That's not to say everyone is like that. But I know more people who are then who aren't. Subtlety, the mainstay of Gothic horror, loses its effect if people are too thick (skinned, or in the head) to understand the full gravity of what's being described. Sometimes you have to be tough to break through and drive the true horror home.
This argument also raises the disturbing question of who is more brutal and degenerate? The monsters or the humans?
"Money is the root of all evil...I think I need more money."