Help with dungeon creation! (trap ideas, monster ideas etc.)

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

OK, the time has come for the climactic adventure in my campaign that I've been looking forward to for years. Now I've got a month or so to finish it. Problem is, I need an old-fashioned dungeon, and I'm not real good at designing them, mainly because Ravenloft has spoiled me into always expecting things to make sense and have a purpose, and dungeons usually don't.

I've flipped through some old modules like Roots of Evil and Ship of Horror for inspiration, and constantly asked "Who builds stuff like this? Why is that monster here? What does it eat? Why does this trap have such an arbitrary solution?" or thought, "oh good, more instant death." or "of course, it's made of bones! ooh scary!" They just don't hold up to my standards of willing suspension of disbelief.

Part of the trouble is balancing what makes sense vs. what makes for a fun game. The best trap I'd make if I were guarding something is a pressure plate in the middle of the hallway that drops the whole 4 ton ceiling down, crushing everyone inside to a pulp. But that makes one failed search check (if they even think to search there!) kill the whole party. Lame. So I need some help.

The basic setup:

• Ancient Guardian-built dungeon atop a snow-capped mountain, guarding a life-leeching artifact. So no living monsters, at least near the artifact itself. Any living monsters must have a reason why they haven't left or starved to death.
• "Final boss" is a lich or vassalich squatter, with (hopefully) interesting undead minions. (VRGttWD as a major source)
• The original defenses of the dungeon have to be designed with the living in mind, and are mostly useless against constructs/the undead. This flaw could be compensated for by any defenses added by the lich.
• Should not include too much (if any) instant unavoidable death traps.
• Path to the artifact should be labyrinth-like with many forking and crossing paths.
• Solutions to traps/puzzles should make more sense than "pull the blue lever, then the red, then spin around twice to open the door." and have a way to be figured out other than trial and error.
• "Ice/cold" theme of the dungeon should show up somewhat, but not to the point of cheesiness.

(For fuller details, see this old thread about the adventure: http://www.fraternityofshadows.com/Foru ... php?t=1356 )

So, does anyone have ideas for monsters or traps I can use, interesting locales for combat, hints or tips? Any online resources you can point too with dungeon maps or the like would be helpful as well. Thanks!

[Van Owen]

The most insideous trap I encountered was a teleportation trap. Its setup was simple, the party would walk down a corridor, and begin to feel a bit sick, and the corridor would stretch forever without an end. What happens, is the party hits the first part of the trap at the part A which which doesn't do anything except take a little bit of their energy to activate the teleportation trap at Point B down the corridor. The teleportation trap at point B is an area effect trap with no saving throw. The teleportation is so instantaneous that there is no way of even noticing it is happening, except for the slight energy drain, and nauseous feeling. The teleportation sends the party back to point A which recharges the trap again, repeating the cycle. Eventually, the party will be become pretty fatigued, seemingly trapped forever in an unending corridor. There are two ways to defeat the trap. The first one is go back, walking back over point A and leaving the dungeon, or at least the corridor, in which case it will be there waiting next time, or the second method is to actually mark the walls so you realize it is the same section of corridor you are going through. The charging generated by walking over Point A will only last a few hours or so. After walking over point A, simply rest for a few hours before walking past point B, at which it will be safely out of charge. As a bonus, undead do not set this trap off, as they have no life energy. Well played, this trap should drive your players nuts!

[alhoon]

Gonzorgon, a fellow DM and me have both fallen in the "Realistic" pit-trap before.
In different occasions, each of us spent 10 - 15 hours designing a dungeon with ultra-realistic eccology. While it is fun to design, it can swiftly turn to an exercise in frustration. Also it is not as fun to play as you may think.
While it is easy to explain things, most players (even the realism lovers) overlook the hints that the Gorgon is fed with X brought from Y with the Z means by the Overlord, while he uses the W method to clean the Gorgon's poop afterwards.
If you stop the action to say "and behind the gorgon you see an intricate system made of pulleys, ropes and hooks, manipulated from the darkness of the ceiling. It probably uses extendable planks and hooks to lower food X for the gorgon to feed" you take about 25" to describe something that the players aren't interested to hear when they are confronted with a deadly enemy. . . And don't expect questions like "Hmm, is there any other mechanical device that seems to be made to clean the gorgon's poop?"

On another note, Players and DMs alike play with a comfortable level of realism to enjoy the game. But it is the action, the suspence and the atmosphere that keeps the game enjoyable and makes it memorable, not full all-out realism.

I have all-too-often made that mistake Gon. The results were far less rewarding than the effort involved.

[Troile]

Keep in mind that the entire d&d system isn't realistic in the least.

It is a hit point based system...you merely get hurt by things and if you have enough hit points you're okay.

After training hard enough you suddenly become more power and know a lot more...

Even if you use learning rules and such it still isn't realistic.

That being said I'm horrible at dungeons and traps and hope to never have to build one.

[Gorthaur]

The original defenses of the dungeon have to be designed with the living in mind, and are mostly useless against constructs/the undead. This flaw could be compensated for by any defenses added by the lich.

Well, some simple traps (see below) with a handful of undead created by the lich/vassalich.

Should not include too much (if any) instant unavoidable death traps.

How about some "normal" pit traps, sprear hurling mechanisms and so on? They are easy to reset (even Undead can do such things) and mantain....

Path to the artifact should be labyrinth-like with many forking and crossing paths.

I don't know, how you handle it, but with labyrinth-like paths you should let the pc's make their own map. (Normally I draw the rooms they see, so that no misunderstandings happen)

Solutions to traps/puzzles should make more sense than "pull the blue lever, then the red, then spin around twice to open the door." and have a way to be figured out other than trial and error.

Well, what about a classical rhyme or riddle. A large one, where every line holds hints about traps and the solution to disarm them? I'm not very good at such rhymes/riddles so it would be a great challenge to do such a thing.

"Ice/cold" theme of the dungeon should show up somewhat, but not to the point of cheesiness.[/list]

Well, then look into the WOTC Frostburn Accessory. It's a little bit fantasy touched, but there are some Undead with Cold Qualities and even some Cold Traps...

[Manofevil]

The most logical creation of a labyrinth I've ever seen was in a movie on PBS called 'Gormandghast'. Based on a book, it's about a castle and it's denizens which has been ruled by one family for 66 generations. Each generation has added this or that to the building as time went on and after all that time, there is far more space than the royal family and staff could possibly live in. Truthfully, they could put up everyone in the kingdom and still have more space than they need. There are thousands of old forgotten family possessions and even more nooks and crannies with some story or another to them. If you're looking for a logical way to build a labyrinth. Perhaps the first thing to do is create a history to the place, then maybe the rest will take care of itself. Maybe.

[kottakinge]

Hi Gonzoron.
I used some of the traps from Legends&Lairs traps & treachery for the castle of Dr Dominiani in Feast of Goblyns.
It's a very useful book and some of the traps have their mechanisms illustrated -->COOL
For the inhabitants of the dongeon use undeads or constructs so u don't have to bother with eccology of monsters.
Even if Ad&d game isn't realistic it's better when u try to make things "not too much" in Ravenloft, I play feast and goblyns and have to change nearly all the dongeon crawl (specially the cave of the priestess).
For the labyrinth i warn u this can be very boring for ur players (remenber the niche in death unchained my players were bored to the death ), so make them find the right path if they begin to get bored.
Good Luck.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

The most insideous trap I encountered was a teleportation trap.

The 9th level wizard spell Teleportation Circle would work perfectly for this if made permanent, except passing it would probably require physically disarming it, which renders it powerless for ten minutes.

Speaking of teleportation traps, the worst I ever heard of was the crypt in Castle Ravenloft that teleported you inside if you touched it, and simultaneously teleported the wight inside it into your position. It even switched your clothes, so the wight got all your gear while you wound up in smelly rags, and a common result was that the other PC's thought you had been turned into a wight!

Those are good traps for the lich. As for the original defenses of the castle, I take it the idea was to prevent whoever got the dagger from ever getting out with it again? Here are some thoughts:

* The labyrinth gets lower towards the center, requiring PC's to drop down at intervals as they work their way in. Dropping down is easy, but climbing up is very difficult: the walls are coated in a crumbly stucco that breaks off if anyone attempts climbing--even with magic--and the lip of the upper opening is rounded and slopes down to make it grapple-proof.

*The PC's could attach ropes on the way in and then climb them back out, but the engineers made sure to eliminate any rope-holds--even sconces--for about fifty feet in each direction. Further, there are many drops, so unless the PC's thought to bring LOTS of rope, they will run short eventually.

*As explained above, the required drops take place away from the sconces that could be used to light the labyrinth, meaning they occur in shadows, and might not be seen until someone falls into one. It wouldn't be too hard to disguise them further as pit traps, so that the PC's spend time and magic getting out of them (or avoiding them completely), only to discover after hours of fruitless wandering that they were supposed to go down the first one and open the secret door at the bottom in order to keep going!

*To make it even more convincing, put spikes at the bottom, and have several other false traps with no such secret doors. If you are feeling especialy sneaky/sadistic, do give the others secret doors--that lead in circles.

*Other things to put in the pits that would discourage intruders:
--rot grubs. They eat whoever falls down, and being vermin, they can go for a loooong time without food.
--green slime. It can go dormant for a long time, slowly dying until there is hardly any left, and then someone falls in, dies and turns into a huge patch of green slime, which goes dormant....
--yellow mold. Boom!
--water. A water-filled pit trap is a whole different animal than any other, because not only are you stuck 20' down with a stucco wall crumbling as you try to climb it, but you are exhausting yourself as you tread water to keep from sinking ten feet down and drowning.

*Matter of fact, you could make the entire lowest level water filled, which would only be natural considering the place's construction; it probably doesn't drain very well. The life-draining dagger's aura would mean the water would have no fish, nor even algae, but there could still be silt that would get stirred up and obscure vision, even darkvision.

Four stories underground, pitch black, clammy water, your life slowly draining away due to something beyond your reach, and you aren't alone...sounds pretty freaky to me!

I've got lots more, but tell me how you like these. You've helped me a lot on Reckonings, the least I could do is return the favor.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

IMO the greatest natural stroke of cruelty would be to get all the way to the center, only to find out that someone had been there and taken the dagger. Now you have to retrace their steps and figure out which trap they died in.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I like that Gormonghast idea.

Another idea is the modification of existing buildings.

For example, say that this lich's lair was once something else - maybe a monestary. The whole lair may be made up of the old monestary, the catacombs beneath it, and some caves the lich had cut into the mountains.

The Monestary isn't used by the lich, but it has been altered from its old purpose. Hallways have been bricked up, new doors blasted through walls, ect... The place is a labyrinth, designed so that the Lich can move through it, but invaders cannot.
The lich has designed the old Monestary as his first line of defense. He has encouraged wild beasts to lair there, perhaps a mix of nocturnal and dayarnal animals so that at any time one group is in the Monestary sleeping/gaurding, while the other is outside hunting/patrolling.
These monsters could be natual, like wolves and bears, or abberations created by the lich, like Winter Wolves or displacer beasts.
The lich might even use minor enchantments so that the beasts avoid one another, thus allowing them to cohabitate in the Monestary.
Traps in the Monestary are based on alerting the natural senteries, hobbleing the invaders, or getting them more confused. Think of pit traps that drop characters into an Owlbear's nest, steel traps tied to cow-bells, and secret doors.

Beneath the monestary might be catacombs -once home to relics and the honoured dead. This area is within range of the wasting rays of the artifact, so only the dead walk these halls.
The undead inhabitants are mummies, or powerful zombies, placed at strategic stong points. Strong points are large rooms, perferbly with cover for the undead. The basic strategy is to allow the invaders into the room, then surround them and dispatch them.
Traps are placed betweem these strong points, in halls and doors. The real purpose is to slow down invaders and allow the undead gaurdians time to muster.
Traps are things like swinging pendulem blades, rotating floors with bladed walls, and firebreathing statues. These traps are designed to be deactivated by puzzle keys - the lich needs some way to get his/her stuff through.

Beneath the catacombs is the lich's inner sanctum - the caves he carved himself into the rock of the mountain. This area has few traps, but these are more along the lines of anti-life traps. Perhaps a heat-activated trigger that drops the metal grate-ceiling on them?

[Brandi]

Brown mold would be very unpleasant, especially in the company of a monster that most people would uncork the flaming oil to attack.

I've often thought a simple and very nasty trap for a wizard's private room-- and it might not apply to your situation-- is this: the top stair of the staircase has a grease spell on it, triggered if a password isn't spoken.

Even in D&D, falling down a flight of stairs should count for some level of pain.

[Rucht Lilavivat]

The basic setup:

• Ancient Guardian-built dungeon atop a snow-capped mountain, guarding a life-leeching artifact. So no living monsters, at least near the artifact itself. Any living monsters must have a reason why they haven't left or starved to death.
• "Final boss" is a lich or vassalich squatter, with (hopefully) interesting undead minions. (VRGttWD as a major source)
• The original defenses of the dungeon have to be designed with the living in mind, and are mostly useless against constructs/the undead. This flaw could be compensated for by any defenses added by the lich.
• Should not include too much (if any) instant unavoidable death traps.
• Path to the artifact should be labyrinth-like with many forking and crossing paths.
• Solutions to traps/puzzles should make more sense than "pull the blue lever, then the red, then spin around twice to open the door." and have a way to be figured out other than trial and error.
• "Ice/cold" theme of the dungeon should show up somewhat, but not to the point of cheesiness.

Love this topic. Gonzoron, when I design I dungeon (particularly in Ravenloft) I usually try to make it "realistic" as well. In order to do this, I try to come up with a history of the place first. The very first thing I do is come up with a purpose. Why does your dungeon exist? If it's a stronghold, there would definately be traps and doors, etc. But there would also be a logical way to bypass these things, because the lich himself would want to move in and out if need be.

The next thing I would think up is this: What does your villain actually do from day to day? Do minions come to him to report on his projects? Does he have a lab? A library? Burial chamber?

Also, why does your lich live in the dungeon? Why not a tower? Why are most of the traps designed for the living?

In my case, I had a psionic lich living at the bottom of the Vault of Quinn Roche, from Gaz I. So I had to come up with a reason for the lich being there. I decided that the actually Quinn Roche was once the burgomeister of Vallaki, where the Vault is located. Roche was a bit on the insane side and began to perform perverse psychic experiments on the villagers he ruled. Strahd disliked this, since the villagers of Barovia belong to Strahd and Strahd only.

Strahd ousted Quinn Roche and placed a new burgomeister in charge of the town. Roche was killed, but he had already forged his phylactery. Then, the Lich Roche retreated into his family tomb and began turning it into a death trap, absolutely paranoid and fearful of the wrath of Strahd. The campaign was about Strahd manipulating the PCs into doing his dirty work for him and destroying the Lich Roche.

Anyway...I figured that Quinn Roche is not just sitting on his ass shivering about Strahd's Wrath. He'd have to do something from day to day. Thus, I created a chapel in his vault, laboratories, experiment chambers, and even a ballroom. The ballroom was really neat. It was full of life-sized string puppets that Roche would "talk to" because he was completely insane and completely lonely for company.

So not every single room was a trap or kill-zone for the PCs. Thus, some rooms were innocous, some rooms were not. There were definately traps placed in various places in the dungeon as security measures, but it wasn't crawling with stuff.

[Jester of the FoS]

I like my creative traps. I suck at making them but some are nice. The best result I ever had was with a simple spray trap that doused the intruder with a liquid. Oil was fun as flames ussually followed. Another time I covered the party with Universal Lubricant (simple to create and based on the Grease spell IIRC) so that they couldn't walk or hold their weapons without slipping.
The typical pit works, especially if filled with spikes. Or capped by an illusion. Another idea is a pit that seals itself off when triggered trapping the victim. This gets nasty if the pit is an underground well trapping the victim inside the while the rest search for a release lever.

[Van Owen]

Back in second Ed, I used a trap based around the spell, "Blastbones" basically, whenever you animate the dead, you cast this spell on them, and whenever destroyed, or sucessfully turned, they explode in a storm of bone fragments, and rotten, decayed flesh. If you want to be really evil, (and who doesn't?) take and drive a bunch of nails into the corpses before animating them. You do this to about 20-30 zombies and stick them in a large room, hopefully, one that the party has to completely enter, like one that a large trap door, or teleportation trap or portal sends them to. Most characters of decent levels aren't going to sweat zombies, so will either set about hacking them up, or will attempt to turn them. When this happens, BOOM! Not only will the nearest zombies explode, but the explosions will destroy more zombies, which in turn will blow up in a spray of neucrotic flesh, rusty nails, and bone fragments. This creates a chain reaction that can cripple even a powerful group.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

In my case, I had a psionic lich living at the bottom of the Vault of Quinn Roche, from Gaz I. So I had to come up with a reason for the lich being there. I decided that the actually Quinn Roche was once the burgomeister of Vallaki, where the Vault is located. Roche was a bit on the insane side and began to perform perverse psychic experiments on the villagers he ruled.

So you had Roche as a psionic lich rather than a mummy? Hmmmm....