Gazetteer Metaplot: Speculations on the Fate of S

[DocBeard]

No, that's an incomplete and somewhat inaccurate version of the Gentleman Caller's plan. The metaplot was Azalin's plan, and even then, it was more a means to S's character development (and possibly one big adventure with repercussions for key parts of the setting) than a Massive Reworking of Ravenloft.

Sorry, I was going for 'funny' and it came out 'obnoxious'. I actually kind of dig the metaplot being something a little more limited instead of the be all end all of a given period of work on the setting. It gives the writers more room to do stuff without the giant expectations a giant metaplot brings.

And in case I didn't say so earlier, thanks for sharing this with us. It is interesting reading!

[HuManBing]

Really, dude? Really? Not even getting into Godwin's law,

Godwin's law serves to debunk the logical fallacy of "Hitler did it, therefore it is bad". (Usually applied to a person's argument, eg "A supports a tax on stamps, but Hitler had a tax on stamps, therefore A's argument is wrong.")

Where Hitler is mentioned in a neutral comparison, or as part of non-emotive discussion, Godwin's law is irrelevant even if true. (Eg, "Both Hitler and HuManBing wore pants and ate vegetables... often simultaneously!")

Edit: I feel my argument will be made much stronger by adding this picture.




Second edit: I feel that the searing rational logic inherent in the preceding picture is not quite persuasive enough. Hence, I attach another picture to hammer home the quintessential Socratic logical rectitude of my higher thought.

[whalejudge]

Is it just me, or might the most destructive possibility for a child of the GC have Tara Kolyana (Tatyana's current incarnation) as its mother?

I did wonder that as well, especially if his ultimate goal is pressing the red button on the demiplane. But does she have any Vistani ancestry?

In the particular case of Tatyana's current incarnation, I'm not sure it matters if she has Vistani ancestry or not. She's so tied in to Strahd and Barovia that she might be an exception to the necessity for Vistani heritage for whatever the GC and/or Azalin might be planning--particularly if she died in childbirth passing her soul on to her daughter...

[DilisnyaRevenge]

OK so if I am deciphering the clues for the 13th...

If the line and the Kargatane's participation had ended at Gaz XIII, it would also have brought some things full circle.

And

The full circle quote was a meta-comment in regard to the Thirteenth and the Kargatane design team, actually.

What I am taking this is that we should look for the first product that the Kargatane worked on. Unless I miss my guess, this is Carnival which Mangrum wrote. We should look for the 13th in this product.

Now lets look at another clue...

The last plans were for the Thirteenth Dukkar to be a character who has seen print . . . but whose abilities are generally latent and who is in a situation that would make it tricky for Azalin to get a hold of him.

In the Carnival it would be very tricky for Azalin to get a hold of him. (Also, Note that he says *him*. So the 13th is male.)

The Thirteenth Dukkar's mother has also received a writeup.

And

The mother of the Ultimate Dukkar has been guessed on this thread, but that of the Thirteenth has not.

Which all leads me to this (which appeared after the previous comment was made):

Has anyone suggested that the Familiar from Carnival is the Gentleman Caller's child?

The Crimson Rose was pregnant when she arrived at the Carnival and the Skurra-vera prevents her and the Familiar from talking about either of their pasts.

So no one knows were he comes from or who his father is.

I think Shoehorn has nailed it. I believe that the Familiar is the 13th and is the son of the GC and Crimson Rose. This fits the bill absolutely perfectly for the 13th.

I have no idea on the Ultimate.

[cure]

The mother of the Ultimate Dukkar has been guessed on this thread, but that of the Thirteenth has not.

Which all leads me to this (which appeared after the previous comment was made):

Has anyone suggested that the Familiar from Carnival is the Gentleman Caller's child?

The Crimson Rose was pregnant when she arrived at the Carnival and the Skurra-vera prevents her and the Familiar from talking about either of their pasts.

So no one knows were he comes from or who his father is.

I think Shoehorn has nailed it. I believe that the Familiar is the 13th and is the son of the GC and Crimson Rose. This fits the bill absolutely perfectly for the 13th.

Matthew's comment ocurrs before Shoehorn's. So unless the Familiar occurs on one of the previous five pages, we have a problem.

[Matthew L. Martin]

Has anyone suggested that the Familiar from Carnival is the Gentleman Caller's child?

The Crimson Rose was pregnant when she arrived at the Carnival and the Skurra-vera prevents her and the Familiar from talking about either of their pasts.

So no one knows were he comes from or who his father is.

Congratulations--you got it. From John Mangrum's notes to the Kargatane (and John has given me permission to share everything I know):

[On the identities of the Dukkars]

Gazeteer VI-XIII: Who knows? I did figure that the thirteenth dukkar,
who S would encounter but only hint at in her reports to Azalin, is the
Familiar at Isolde's Carnival.

[On the obstacles to Azalin's plan]

the missing 13th dukkar has been watched over by a ghaele eladrin since before his birth, and she's been taking great care to ensure that he never falls into evil hands. Plus, since he's been protected by the skurra-vera
since the moment he was born, the Familiar's fiendish nature has never
been able to manifest, so he's pretty much completely under the radar.
(This is also why she doesn't just kill him -- until/unless his fiendish
heritage is unleashed, he's basically an innocent bystander in all of this.)

[cure]

Aside from an ego trip, what was the point of the suspicion that S was a clone of Azalin? If there is someone that Azalin would want cloned, it would be Malacchio. Now given the suggestion that there is something cumulative in the Gentleman Caller's plans, rather than mere impregnation with the hope of getting lucky, might not a breeding program à la Dune be underfoot? If so, who has to be crossed with who to achieve the ultimate result?

[Matthew L. Martin]

Aside from an ego trip, what was the point of the suspicion that S was a clone of Azalin?

S is one of the clones from the same project that produced Lowellyn Dachine. Since she was an aberration--a female clone--Azalin took little interest in her during his pre-Requiem existence, assuming there was very little of himself in there. That's why she's the only clone left alive and sane. After his emergence from his time merged with Darkon, he decided to use her to track down the Dukkars . . . and groom her for her next role.

Now given the suggestion that there is something cumulative in the Gentleman Caller's plans, rather than mere impregnation with the hope of getting lucky, might not a breeding program à la Dune be underfoot? If so, who has to be crossed with who to achieve the ultimate result?

If you take what we know of the Dukkars whose parentage we can deduce, you should be able to extrapolate the parentage of the Ultimate Dukkar. As I said, I guessed it when we only had three of the GC-Dukkars out there.

[Joël of the FoS]

OK so S is a clone and the Familiar is a potential dukkar, very interesting, very interesting ... Cool idea to have it back to Carnival, indeed.

And the list of planned domains per Gaz makes you wonder who they selected as Child of the GC in each... The dude is well traveled

[Matthew L. Martin]

OK so S is a clone and the Familiar is a potential dukkar, very interesting, very interesting ... Cool idea to have it back to Carnival, indeed.

And the list of planned domains per Gaz makes you wonder who they selected as Child of the GC in each... The dude is well traveled

If you were trying to find your way out of Ravenloft while staying a step ahead of a wrathful-as-heaven ghaele eladrin, while at the same time working for the ruin of souls, wouldn't you be covering a lot of ground too?

[Lucius]

By the way, what was Azalin trying to do at all? And how was he going to use the 13 (and/or the Ultimate) Dukkars to accomplish that?

[cure]

Does this accurately summarise what we know?

Code: Select all

Child		Deformity	Land			Mother	        Maternal Grandmother/Grandfather	

Beast of	monstrous	Kartakass 	 Vistana or 1/2 Vistana  ?/?	
of the Hills								 with low self-asteem

Vigo Drakov  fiendish  Falkovnia    1/2 Vistana            Vistana?/Giorgio?
									   		 Isabella Aderre
                                     of Zarovan linegage

Jongleur  'scarring'  Borca 		Vistana or 1/2 Vistana    ?/?		

Malocchio  6 fingers  Invidia 	  1/4 Vistana Darklord    1/2 Vistana Isabella Aderre
												  Gabrielle Aderre		 /Darklord Vlad Drakov
                                     of Zarovan linegage

Chezna 	  redhead 	Nova Vaasa 	Vistana		          Vistana/Vistana

Familiar	repressed	Carnival 		Vistana Crimson Rose	Vistana/Vistana
											 	 of Naiat tribe

FAQ: "It is known that the children are all reputed to have Vistani mothers and the proof of each child's fiendish ancestry - physical or mental - is a reflection of his or her mother's personality."

Malocchio's strength over and above that of other children is presumably tied to having at least one and perhaps two Darklords as ancestors or alternatively one Darklord and the GC twice.

So a cross of Malocchio and a female with a comparable ancestory?

[DilisnyaRevenge]

Taking my guess as to the Ultimate Dukkar's mother that has been mentioned here...

If the closest that the GC came to making the Ultimate was Malocchio who is the offspring of a half-Vistani darklord. Therefore, I think it stands to reason that the only way to be more powerful than that, the child would have to be the offspring of a full-Vistani darklord.

The only one of these that I am aware of is Inza.

Matthew said he figured it out with only limited information, so this would lead me to believe that it is something really simple like this. Am I completely off base?

[The Giamarga]

FAQ: "It is known that the children are all reputed to have Vistani mothers and the proof of each child's fiendish ancestry - physical or mental - is a reflection of his or her mother's personality."

Can someone more familiar [no pun intended] with the dukkars elaborate on the above? What can we glean for the possible refelctions of the Familiar or the ultimate dukkar?

[cure]

FAQ: "It is known that the children are all reputed to have Vistani mothers and the proof of each child's fiendish ancestry - physical or mental - is a reflection of his or her mother's personality."

Can someone more familiar [no pun intended] with the dukkars elaborate on the above? What can we glean for the possible refelctions of the Familiar or the ultimate dukkar?

From what I recall, Mangrum said that Beast of the Hills, the most monstrous appearing of the children, would have been the offspring of a Vistana who had a low sense of self-esteem. I also seem to recall that the Beast of the Hills is not evil, which again would be true of the mother. Compare this with the Gaby-Mallochio pair.