Quoth the Raven #31 (Halloween 2024) Reaction Thread

[Mistmaster]

Barovia: Land of Strahd and Mysteries


Domain – I, like others, don't like how “cosmopolitan” this domain is described. One of the defining characteristics of Barovia is its isolation - both physically due to its rough terrain and socially because of its backwards people.

I know that Mistmaster's aim is to create a more cohesive world out of the Ravenloft domains, but even in Europe in the 20th century there were countries (such as Poland and Romania) that lagged far behind their more modern neighbors, and I think that aspect of this domain could have been left intact without affecting the article's verisimilitude.

NPCs - The usual cast of characters is there – Sergei von Zarovich, Leo Dilisnya, and Madam Eva – and it's extremely hard to wring any originality from such a well-documented group. But, where Mistmaster really shines is in the other NPCs he adds to the mix. The Axe Widow was my favorite. I also love that the ghost of Sergei is more active, freely roaming around and thwarting his brother's schemes. I don't like Baba Lysaga, but I didn't like her character in Curse of Strahd either.

And Lady Imix in Vallaki is a nice shout out to a character introduced way back in the Undead Sea Scrolls '03. I'm sure there are references to other articles that I didn't catch. It's nice to know the author did his homework when it comes to deep lore!

Secret Societies – I'm not a big fan of having too many of these in any one domain, but I do like the Order of the Red Cloak because it adds more opponents for PCs to fight than just Strahd. The Order of the Raven seems redundant, especially when the Keepers of the Feather are still active in this version of the domain. One or the other would do, but not both.

Count-King Strahd von Zarovich – This is a very streamlined entry that keeps all the salient points from his original origin. (Why, oh why, couldn't 5e have done the same thing?) I noticed that you mentioned Inajira but did not outline him under the NPCs section. Did I miss something?

I like all the nuances Mistmaster has added regarding Strahd's “regenerations” and also tying them more closely to Tatyanna's reincarnations. The addition of the Blood Rose is a nice touch. (It reminds me of Where the Red Ferns Grow, and who wasn't traumatized by that book as a kid?)

Overall - The highlight of this article for me is the breakdown of all the “different” Strahds that ruled throughout the domain's history and what they were best known for. It's an interesting approach and this lore can be added to the domain no matter what version DMs prefer to use.

Thanks for you revew. Inajira is mentioned as having been destroyed by Strahd V with the sacrifice of Tatyana's incarnation. Of course it would be possible for the fiend to be restored. I did not detailed it in some place because...I admit I did forgot it. I could have used him as a patron for some NPC plotting to ressurrect him. Maybe I will add this possibility in a future PDF I might create to put the Mistworld in one place.

[Jeremy16]

Beneath the Eye of Belenus


I have a confession to make. I don't really find Nidala and it's darklord all that interesting. I know there's a lot of history and lore out there, but for me that's more of a barrier than a boon. I've never read anything other than Elena's entry in Islands of Terror and Ebonbane's entry in Darklords so whenever the Shadowlands cluster comes up I always feel like I'm missing context.

All that to say, most of the subject matter covered in this article is just meh to me; but, that does not necessarily reflect my opinion of the article itself.

First Half – The Domain, etc.

The Phantasmal Forest – I don't like the way the Phantasmal Forest is described as a domain without a darklord. I always thought it served the same function as the Mists do elsewhere, i.e. as a tool of the Dark Powers. Having either Morgoroth or Ebonbane being able to control it makes it lose some of its mystery. It may seem like a small thing, but it makes a big difference.

The Belenite Faith - As always, the authors excels at delineating religious orders and the like and the treatise on the Belenite faith is very well done. I also appreciate the short compare/contrast with other theocracies in the Demiplane.

Ebonbane – As written here, he seems rather listless and anemic. After his encounter with Alexi this darklord's menace seems to have diminished quite a bit. Maybe the problem is that this article focuses too much on Ebonbane's failures instead of his victories? Or maybe this Darklord is so one-note that there's not much more that can be done with him? Mangrum's description of “Pearls in the Oil” made the Ebonbane more of an active player in the cluster's make-up, but here he seems to be sidelined.

DP: She Who Fights with Monsters – This sidebar really crystallized Elena's dichotomy for me. For all intents and purposes she IS Banemaw - a dragon in spirit, if not form. Think about it... She goes on rampages, she's egotistical and can't admit when she's wrong, and she guards her treasure (the love of her people) zealously. It's a perfectly twisted version of the usual fairytale set-up. I think introducing a real dragon into this domain, even though it may seem too fantastical of an element to some, would be a great way to force her to face what she has become.

Second Half – Secret Societies

The Alhtrian – I appreciate the different history and personalities that the authors have given this pack of ghouls. Just because you're undead doesn't mean you can't pursue hobbies!

The Guardians of Morals – Of course, the authors do their usual stellar job when it comes to filling out hypocritical priesthoods with some truly nasty characters.

Hunters of the Boar's Den – I like these guys because they're not attached to the backstory of any darklords or other power players in the domain.

Knights of the Shadows – It's nice to see a concise origin for these guys, but this group still seems like an afterthought to me. With all the political maneuvering going on between the various factions here, the Knight's presence doesn't seem to factor into this cluster at all. I wish the author would have made them more active on their "home turf."

The Last Circle – These guys are a nice counterpoint to Ebonbane's Alhtrians, but it does make the cluster a bit top heavy with ghouls.

The Moonshadows – This group fills the role I wanted the Knights of the Shadows to take, but to an even lesser degree. I find them unsatisfactory as a group of their own.

The Woodlarks – I love everything about these guys. They're not tied to any other group and add a much-needed bright spot to an otherwise dour domain.

The Woodsmen – While I like the role they serve, their name is way too similar to the Woodlarks and I can see how easy it would be for both DMs and players to confuse the two.

Overall

This article does a good job of combining all the disparate elements of the cluster into a more cohesive whole than other treatments. Unfortunately, that still doesn't change my mind about the cluster as whole.

The second half of article, however, introduces much more interesting elements into the mix. The authors have a knack not just for ecclesiastical intrigue but intraparty conflict that really brings the secret societies (and their members) that permeate this land to life.

[IanFordam]

I will post more later when I have brain (because a considered review deserves a considered response), but I wanted to draw attention to the fact that Speedwagon kicked off this effort and was very heavily involved throughout the development and writing of the article. I want to make certain that he gets his share of the credit!

[Jeremy16]

I will post more later when I have brain (because a considered review deserves a considered response), but I wanted to draw attention to the fact that Speedwagon kicked off this effort and was very heavily involved throughout the development and writing of the article. I want to make certain that he gets his share of the credit!

Sorry about that! I'm usually all about correct attributions but brain farts will happen. I edited my review to include Speedy, as well.

[IanFordam]

Beneath the Eye of Belenus


I have a confession to make. I don't really find Nidala and it's darklord all that interesting. I know there's a lot of history and lore out there, but for me that's more of a barrier than a boon. I've never read anything other than Elena's entry in Islands of Terror and Ebonbane's entry in Darklords so whenever the Shadowlands cluster comes up I always feel like I'm missing context.

All that to say, most of the subject matter covered in this article is just meh to me; but, that does not necessarily reflect my opinion article itself.

I appreciate that you call out your biases when they are relevant to a review. That helps tremendously when trying to figure out how an article might be improved. In this particular case, it's useful to know the sources with which you were familiar because that draws attention to the many sources which Speedwagon and I were taking too much for granted. I had forgotten quite how much a sprawling mess the Shadowlands lore is.

First Half – The Domain, etc.

The Phantasmal Forest – I don't like the way the Phantasmal Forest is described as a domain without a darklord. I always thought it served the same function as the Mists do elsewhere, i.e. as a tool of the Dark Powers. Having either Morgoroth or Ebonbane being able to control it makes it lose some of its mystery. It may seem like a small thing, but it makes a big difference.

The Phantasmal Forest originated as part of Avonleigh in A Light in the Belfry, where it was simply the name of the forest around Tergeron Manor. However, Speedwagon and I both really liked Mangrum's "Pearls in the Oil" idea, which gives considerable influence over the Phantasmal Forest to Ebonbane. To reconcile the two perspectives and to increase interaction among the domains, we decided to declare the Phantasmal Forest a contested territory.

The Belenite Faith - As always, the authors excels at delineating religious orders and the like and his treatise on the Belenite faith is very well done. I also appreciate the short compare/contrast with other theocracies in the Demiplane.

The compare/contrast arose from Speedwagon regularly asking me, "So, Ian, how are these things different?" Eventually I realized that maybe my answers would be useful to readers as well.

Ebonbane – As written here, he seems rather listless and anemic. After his encounter with Alexi this darklord's menace seems to have diminished quite a bit. Maybe the problem is that this article focuses too much on Ebonbane's failures instead of his victories? Or maybe this Darklord is so one-note that there's not much more that can be done with him? Mangrum's description of “Pearls in the Oil” made the Ebonbane more of an active player in the cluster's make-up, but here he seems to be sidelined.

In this section we probably should have called out Speedwagon's "Secrets of the Phantasmal Forest" from QtR30. That article runs with Mangrum's "Pearls in the Oil" idea, and even a brief synopsis might have helped to avert the reaction you had.

Also, confession time: I personally find Ebonbane so one-note that there's not much more that can be done with him. I feel that the most interesting thing about Ebonbane is Kateri Shadowborn, and the next most interesting thing is Alexi Shadowborn. Also, the small scope of his domain is tremendously limiting, which is why Speedy and I tried to find ways to expand his influence into the rest of the Shadowlands.

DP: She Who Fights with Monsters – This sidebar really crystallized Elena's dichotomy for me. For all intents and purposes she IS Banemaw - a dragon in spirit, if not form. Think about it... She goes on rampages, she's egotistical and can't admit when she's wrong, and she guards her treasure (the love of her people) zealously. It's a perfectly twisted version of the usual fairytale set-up. I think introducing a real dragon into this domain, even though it may seem too fantastical of an element to some, would be a great way to force her to face what she has become.

I belong to the camp that fervently believes Banemaw should remain a fiction, and you've just pointed out very precisely why.

On the other hand, I probably could be convinced to accept the inclusion of some other dragon as part of an endgame adventure for Nidala.

Second Half – Secret Societies

The Alhtrian – I appreciate the different history and personalities that the authors have given this pack of ghouls. Just because you're undead doesn't mean you can't pursue hobbies!

The individual Ahltrian (and their hobbies) were all Speedy's creations!

The Guardians of Morals – Of course, the authors do their usual stellar job when it comes to filling out hypocritical priesthoods with some truly nasty characters.

Thank you.

Hunters of the Boar's Den – I like these guys because they're not attached to the backstory of any darklords or other power players in the domain.

I am most fond of domains which have room for groups unrelated to the domain's larger plot.

Knights of the Shadows – It's nice to see a concise origin for these guys, but this group still seems like an afterthought to me. With all the political maneuvering going on between the various factions here, the Knight's presence doesn't seem to factor into this cluster at all. I wish the author would have made them more active on their "home turf."

The Knights of the Shadows are an odd faction. Their origins are deeply tied to the Shadowlands, and they do return every year to rebind Ebonbane with the elemental keys. Otherwise, though, individual members need not have anything to do with the Shadowlands. They are a general-purpose band of do-gooders. In fact, sometimes I feel that you can't throw a stone at Ravenloft lore without hitting a Knight of the Shadows. The Knights are tremendously useful, but their minimally-related nature makes a comprehensive summary difficult. In the end, we included the brief write-up of the Knights largely to introduce Halafrin Lonshadow, who has a role in our proposed endgame scenario.

The Last Circle – These guys are a nice counterpoint to Ebonbane's Alhtrians, but it does make the cluster a bit top heavy with ghouls.

Yeah, that's tricky to avoid when you've got a necromancer contending with a fiend who creates ghouls.

The Moonshadows – This group fills the role I wanted the Knights of the Shadows to take, but to an even lesser degree. I find them unsatisfactory as a group of their own.

We felt that Avonleigh needed a faction of its own. However, it is useful to know that we did not do enough to differentiate it.

The Woodlarks – I love everything about these guys. They're not tied to any other group and add a much-needed bright spot to an otherwise dour domain.

Gotta provide a reason for hope!

The Woodsmen – While I like the role they serve, their name is way too similar to the Woodlarks and I can see how easy it would be for both DMs and players to confuse the two.

Yeah, that's entirely on me. I had already created the Woodlarks and written the story "Ardaghy" by the time I stumbled across Elena's woodsmen in Islands of Terror. I never came up with a replacement name for the Woodlarks that I liked, and I didn't feel I could rename the canon group. And then I came up with the title of the associated adventure, "Of Larks and Men", and at that point I was committed to my unfortunate decision.

Overall

This article does a good job of combining all the disparate elements of the cluster into a more cohesive whole than other treatments. Unfortunately, that still doesn't change my mind about the cluster as whole.

The second half of article, however, introduces much more interesting elements into the mix. The authors have a knack not just for ecclesiastical intrigue but intraparty conflict that really brings the secret societies (and their members) that permeate this land to life.

Even if we did not spark an interest in these domains for you, I'm still glad you found aspects of the article to appreciate. Your feedback is always very much welcome.

[Mephisto of the FoS]

The Phantasmal Forest originated as part of Avonleigh in A Light in the Belfry, where it was simply the name of the forest around Tergeron Manor. However, Speedwagon and I both really liked Mangrum's "Pearls in the Oil" idea, which gives considerable influence over the Phantasmal Forest to Ebonbane. To reconcile the two perspectives and to increase interaction among the domains, we decided to declare the Phantasmal Forest a contested territory.

Don't forget Addar

[IanFordam]

The Phantasmal Forest originated as part of Avonleigh in A Light in the Belfry, where it was simply the name of the forest around Tergeron Manor. However, Speedwagon and I both really liked Mangrum's "Pearls in the Oil" idea, which gives considerable influence over the Phantasmal Forest to Ebonbane. To reconcile the two perspectives and to increase interaction among the domains, we decided to declare the Phantasmal Forest a contested territory.

Don't forget Addar

Rest assured that we didn't actually forget Addar! We just couldn't think of anything to add to his story. He's already the quintessential pearl in the oil.

[doctornecrotic]

I'm hopefully getting close to finishing my draft for the next QtR issue. Hopefully what I wrote addresses many of the critiques of the previous article.

[Jeremy16]

I'm hopefully getting close to finishing my draft for the next QtR issue. Hopefully what I wrote addresses many of the critiques of the previous article.

Hey Doc,

I'm having issues with PMing you. I haven't gotten anything in my email yet. Can you send the invitation again?

- Jeremy

[doctornecrotic]

I'm hopefully getting close to finishing my draft for the next QtR issue. Hopefully what I wrote addresses many of the critiques of the previous article.

Hey Doc,

I'm having issues with PMing you. I haven't gotten anything in my email yet. Can you send the invitation again?

- Jeremy

I was away for a little bit, let me try again.