Lamest Dark Lord, and Possible Fixes...

[Sylaire]

I'd be interested in checking that out. The God-Brain has the significant problem that it started out as a monster, and not a human-like monster but a essentially alien monster from a society so different from any human one that it's hard to empathize with its sufferings.

Which is why you'll probably like the Book of Sacrifices' treatment: it resolves the issue of the God-Brain's being "too inhuman for a darklord" rather brilliantly.

*downloads*

*reads*



Very nice, indeed! This treatment adds some genuine Gothic pathos to what appears on the surface to be a mere monster. It would take some writing skill to construct an adventure, I suspect, which let this come out naturally for the players to perceive, but it could well work.

(Hm...and speaking of alien monsters, I have to say that I like the Head Hunter. I absolutely loved Castle Amber when I was nine years old!)

[NeoTiamat]

Out of curiosity, since we're on the subject, what are peoples views on Tiyet, Diamabel, Zolnik, Mircea, Ebonbane, and the rest of the Island/Cluster crowd? Most of them are really largely ignored, but a few stand up over the crowd (Arijani, Misroi, Yagno, etc).

[Spiteful Crow]

Out of curiosity, since we're on the subject, what are peoples views on Tiyet, Diamabel, Zolnik, Mircea, Ebonbane, and the rest of the Island/Cluster crowd? Most of them are really largely ignored, but a few stand up over the crowd (Arijani, Misroi, Yagno, etc).

I think Mircea could turn out alright if fleshed out a bit.

On the other hand, I kinda feel like Ebonbane is given waaaaaaaaaay too much credit just for being a psychotic floating sword with superpowers.

[Bluebomber4evr]

I've read the Book of Sacrifices' treatments of both the Illithid God-Brain and the Lady of Ravens and enjoyed both of them, but those were never made canon. If I needed to make those darklords work I'd use the BoS's treatment, but those two darklords, as written in official products (or in the Lady's case, unwritten), are difficult to use.

Out of curiosity, since we're on the subject, what are peoples views on Tiyet, Diamabel, Zolnik, Mircea, Ebonbane, and the rest of the Island/Cluster crowd? Most of them are really largely ignored, but a few stand up over the crowd (Arijani, Misroi, Yagno, etc).

-Diamabel: cool twist on zoroastrianism. He's Ahura-Mazda by day, Ahriman by night.

-Tiyet: unique type of mummy to contrast Ankhtepot's stereotype.

-Zolnik: cool variant werewolf, what with the having to wear a wolf pelt to transform and all, but I've never read Dark of the Moon so I don't know much about the character

-Mircea: He was largely undetailed until the 3.5 Ravenloft DMG, but what I read there I liked.

-Ebonbane: I love the concept of a darklord that is an intelligent magic sword, and I really love his ability to animate all blades in his domain and turn them against a party

[cure]

Ebonbane warms the heart of anyone fond of Moorcock's/Elric's Stormbringer, without being a cheap rip off of the concept. Compare that to the article that attributes to the Lady of Raven's the non-sensical production of a sword that is a cheesy rip off of the concept. Incidently, I just have trouble seeing the woman taking the weapon making feat proficency and hammering away at steel over a blazing kiln, to say nothing of managing to turn out the most deadly sword in Ravenloft. If she was a dwarf or a fiend maybe, but instead is a loner with no skill or experience of war.

[Ail]

I agree. All of the truly evil acts attributable to Adam seem to be ones that occurred after he became darklord of Lamordia. I've never really understood the constant hammering of the point "ADAM is the darklord of Lamordia" by TSR/WotC. It would all make sense if Mordenheim was the darklord and Adam was his curse: Mordenheim committed the initial evil act of rejecting the divine and any greater concept of morality, then the secondary evil act of mishandling Adam once he'd created life(though ironically, Mordenheim was a better, more responsible creator than Frankenstein was). Mordenheim is the unrepentant sinner who continues to repeat his original mistakes (and commit hideously evil acts, including murder, to those ends), and it's Mordenheim who is forced to both witness Elise's constant suffering and see his master creation be his implacable enemy (and indeed, he can never destroy that enemy because his own existence is tied to Adam's). Mordenheim fits every requirement of what a darklord is, and yet he isn't one.

In a way, it's an extension of how society at large treated Frankenstein's monster--with immediate hatred and rejection based upon his external features. Adam is Mordenheim's "Monster," therefore he must be the darklord, regardless of who is the true villain of the piece. Apparently the Dark Powers have a truly savage sense of irony, eh?

I agree completely with you, and even in DoD it is perhaps odd that Mordenheim is listed along with Adam in the domain description, whereas in all other domains only the darklord shows up there. It seems that even TSR couldn't make up its mind on who should be the Darklord. At first, I always thought it was Mordenheim, especially because I had read Frankenstein and the monster does come out as a sympathetic creature of sorts, sometimes.

So, I'd stay with Mordenheim as Darklord. It makes sense.

As for the Island lords, I'll repeat myself a little.

I like Misroi very much. I think Elena has lots of potential because I like Inquisition stories. I find some possibilities in Ebonbane (and isn't he inside Alexi Shadowborn now? Or when was that, only in the novel?)

Yagno doesn't do it for me. I don't know, I just never liked him. Markov is another one that doesn't appeal to me, but at least I think his island may give an interesting story.

Maligno, Malus Sceleris, Bluebeard, Althea, Polarno, Meredoth, Monette, Evensong, Easan, God-Brain, Thakok-An, Sodo, Hive-Queen, King Crocodile, Draga and Davion are all useless to me, either because I don't know them enough or because I detest them cmpletely (the first two notably, and also some others further down).

The Headless Horseman and the Phantom Lover are two interesting concepts to me, two lords I always think that can have much potential given adequate stories.

Mircea, or rather his domain, always reminds me of Polanski's Fearless Vampire Killers. In a way, I find him much more suitable to the traditional vampire tale than Strahd so yes, I'd keep him around and do stories with him. I find it more in accordance with the many vampire movies from the 60s and 70s, and not necessarily Hammer ones.

I think Zolnik has at least as much potential. I like the environment in the Frozen Reaches a lot, so I may be biased, but I'd keep him around too.

Lemot Sediam Juste is a rich character that can be used in many ways, perhaps as a charmer and manipulator. Guess in a sense it could be tied in to the Phantom of the Opera.

T'sien Chang. Most people dislike her. As I am very fond of chinese stories, I always kept the impression in the back of my mind that I could use her and use her well. I never tried to, but I do not discard her immediately. Also, I don't remember much about her write up, safe for some bell-towers, but I'd keep her in my world too.

Van Riese: come on, you have to have a ghost ship in Ravenloft. If not only for that, I want to keep Van Riese with me. When I think about him, I always think Der Fliegende Hollaender, and if I came to use him, I'd probably read more about this story and update him accordingly.

Meredoth and Morgoroth: apart from similar names and both of them reminding me of Tolkien's Morgoth, I don't know anything else about these to make them interesting.

Arijani: perhaps it has some potential, but I don't know enough.

Did I miss anyone? Please, tell me if I did so that I can comment on them.

Alex

[Nathan of the FoS]

Ebonbane warms the heart of anyone fond of Moorcock's/Elric's Stormbringer, without being a cheap rip off of the concept. Compare that to the article that attributes to the Lady of Raven's the non-sensical production of a sword that is a cheesy rip off of the concept. Incidently, I just have trouble seeing the woman taking the weapon making feat proficency and hammering away at steel over a blazing kiln, to say nothing of managing to turn out the most deadly sword in Ravenloft. If she was a dwarf or a fiend maybe, but instead is a loner with no skill or experience of war.

Eh? The article you're talking about (Felauragoth, from the Book of Sacrifices, right?) doesn't say the Lady of Ravens made it, only that it was found in her castle.

I did explain Felauragoth's origins in the Quoth the Raven article on the Isle of Ravens, but I had it being created by one of her escaped fey servitors; he tried to kill her with it, failed, and fled, leaving the sword behind. She later foisted it off on a passing adventurer to get it away from her.

I don't know if that story's any more palatable, but it's out there as another option.

[cure]

Eh? The article you're talking about (Felauragoth, from the Book of Sacrifices, right?) doesn't say the Lady of Ravens made it, only that it was found in her castle.

I did explain Felauragoth's origins in the Quoth the Raven article on the Isle of Ravens, but I had it being created by one of her escaped fey servitors; he tried to kill her with it, failed, and fled, leaving the sword behind. She later foisted it off on a passing adventurer to get it away from her.

I don't know if that story's any more palatable, but it's out there as another option.

Ok, I confess to not going back and looking it up. And although the Fey manufacture now rings a bell, I seemed to have missed at the time that she was trying to put it out of harm's way vis-a-via herself. Indeed, I was always puzzled what she had hoped to gain.

[Jeremy16]

Has anyone mentioned Capt. Monette yet? He's quite the one-trick pony if I recall. Although, I guess you could fix that by making his island more of a secret pirate haven ala Tortuga in Pirates of the Carribbean. That way there are more victims for Monette to feed on as well as reasons PCs might come under his sphere of influence.

Come to think of it, all the Darklords in the Nocturnal Sea need some sort of "fix" to make them more playable and realistic as NPCs. (One of the reasons I'm very anxious to see what the Frat does with its Nocturnal Sea Gazetteer - I was impressed with the Isle of Ravens write-up in one of the QTRs.)

[Gwenfloor]

My familiar hobby-horse (which should be easily recognizable by anybody who discussed this with me in the previous thread) is Vlad Drakov.

This could easily turn into a rant, so I'll be brief and outline in broad strokes.

Vlad Drakov fails:

* to understand he is cursed
* to understand why he's cursed
* to show any sign of moral redemption
* arguably, to show any sign of stylistic redemption (i.e. anything that would make PCs/DMs actually respect him)

Militarily, he's a failure, fighting with outdated weapons against gunpowder weapons. Worse still, there appears to be no need behind his war campaigns. They're utterly pointless, unlike the motivations of Azalin or Strahd.

Politically, his domain is entirely, utterly, and pathetically self-serving.

Emotionally, his character shows little signs of suffering that an average human could compare to. (I fail entirely to buy the "despotic mass-murderer... who only wants a little respect" argument.)

Fixes: (these proved unpopular with the visitors to this forum, so be warned)

Change Vlad's curse so that his ageing process is slowed/reversed by spilling blood. This won't make him any more likeable, but it would explain why he is bent on warfare - too long a protracted peace would literally kill him.

Say he regains a certain amount of lifespan for every wound inflicted by a Falkovnian weapon. This would explain why he tortures and maims, but also why it's worth his while to raise an army and send it into the next domain to attack and pillage.

So now we have a darklord who's afraid of dying (which the average human can probably empathize with) and his only way out of the curse is to cause more bloodshed.

As opposed to his badly-thought-out current curse, which is a longing for the respect of his fellow darklords. You know, some leaders build monuments or Wonders of the World, rather than torturing their own people and sending them on murderous rampages.

The reason that Vlad Drakov may crave respect and power is that he may have been earlier in his life hurt and oppressed in a similiar way. For example, many serial killers and sex offenders had abusive childhoods.
Vlad Drakov may have been suffering under the hands of a perverted rapist, or a sadistic father. However, the history of Vlad Drakov has not been revealed earlier than when he was a bloodthirsty mercenary. Of course, I only have 3rd edition sourcebooks, so I would not be surprised if an aspect of his history has yet to be revealed to me in a previous edition sourcebook.

[HuManBing]

No, you're right. Vlad Drakov's past was kept fairly vague in previous editions of sourcebooks too. All the 2nd edition texts say is that he came from Thenol, the "Other Side" of the Krynn world.

I like your idea of Drakov's sadism being caused by a childhood or early adult incident. It would certainly lend more credence to his current existence. It might even lend itself to psychological tortures that he himself endures, and give some insight as to why he visits such physical ones on others.

[Gwenfloor]

No, you're right. Vlad Drakov's past was kept fairly vague in previous editions of sourcebooks too. All the 2nd edition texts say is that he came from Thenol, the "Other Side" of the Krynn world.

I like your idea of Drakov's sadism being caused by a childhood or early adult incident. It would certainly lend more credence to his current existence. It might even lend itself to psychological tortures that he himself endures, and give some insight as to why he visits such physical ones on others.

I think that someone should make a story as to why Vlad became such a warmongering sadist. People just don't wake up one day and decide to bring misery and suffering to everyone that cannot fight back.

[Isabella]

I think that someone should make a story as to why Vlad became such a warmongering sadist. People just don't wake up one day and decide to bring misery and suffering to everyone that cannot fight back.

Drakov might have suffered from acute depression or an inferiority complex; he wouldn't have woken up one day and decided to become a dictator but there wouldn't necessarily be one defining event/thing that made him what he was.

[WolfKook]

Well, we have several interesting points on how to improve Drakov:

• Traumatic childhood experience, as proposed by Gwenfloor. That would need some expansion on Drakov's childhood, which may require some research about Thenol and what was going on by the time.

• Acute depression or inferiority complex, as proposed by Isabella. This one is easier once the first one is detailed, as it may have arised by the "childhood experience".

• Fear of death -Or fear of aging-, along the lines of HumanBing's proposal. Perhaps he just doesn't want to feel weak and powerles, which may have a lot to do with the aforementioned complex.

• Power to extend his life and youth from the blood dropped on Falkovnian soil (HumanBing's idea)

That seems as material for a write-up... Any takers?

BTW, HumanBing, I really DO like your take on Drakov. It really does improve him, transforms him into a more tragic (And gothic) character (What is more important: To keep your youth and vitality through pointless campaigns doomed to fail, or to keep your reputation as a brilliant strategist and warlord?), and gives him a reason to want to conquer new lands (If you keep your vitality with the blood fallen on Falkovnian soil, you may probably want the "Falkovnian soil" to cover as much terrain as possible)

[Jakob]

Out of curiosity, since we're on the subject, what are peoples views on Tiyet, Diamabel, Zolnik, Mircea, Ebonbane, and the rest of the Island/Cluster crowd? Most of them are really largely ignored, but a few stand up over the crowd (Arijani, Misroi, Yagno, etc).

Tiyet: I like her, but not her domain. She wanders the desert, kills some travelers... Then what? Good for a one-time-only encounter with the PCs traveling the desert, but then...

Diamabel: Agree with Bluebomber4evr. Also, I find the "1001 Nights horror" quite fascinating.

Zolnik: Don't mind him, but I like the twist on the werebeast, and the "survival at all cost" feeling of the domain.

Mircea: Quite boring and with not much potential.

Ebonbane: Good for a while, but not focus of a campaign. An adventure, maybe.

Arijani: Love him AND his (its?) domain.

Misroi: As above. Especially after the Gazetteer.

Yagno: Never minded him much. Interesting, in fact, that in the "enter Ravenloft-kill darklord-escape" boring serie of modules, he was the only one that could find redemption.

Markov: He has not much potential, but the island do have it. I staged an high-level adventure, in my past Ravenloft campaign.

T'sien Chang: HeeeehehehehehehehehahahahahHAHAHAHAHEHEHAHAHAHAHA...
...
Sorry.
Nope, don't like her much.