Café de Nuit

Indeed - already there are two supplements of great interest - D20 Future and D20 Past.
I bought D20 past myself, and it is an interesting book with all sorts of game information that would make it easy to play a campaign set in any time between renaisance and modern.

Funny, I was dissapointed by d20 Past, especially since the future book was massive and hardcover the past book seemed like a tiny afterthought. Heck, even as a softcover they could have doubled the pagecount.
The information also seemed limited, as if no one told the authors the page-count until too late and they had to cut-n-trim like crazy just to squeeze the essentials in. Just covering three small time perions in 400years -and in limited styles too- just felt like much was unexplored and unexplained.

True, there is that, but then again they covered the basics pretty well.

You had your renaisance level type information, your victorian eara stuff (Gee, where did they get the idea for a 1890's horror campaign?), and the pulp era rules.

I agree that it was a little too short, but any longer and the book would have been way too expensive for my budget. As well, while the editing was a little to stingey, at least they left in the juiciest, most useful parts.

I would say though that I would have perferred to see more game information and less adventures - but at least those adventrues supplied a number of maps which could be used for nearly any effect.

I think the only area where I was disapointed was in the conspicious lack of the Nazi super-solider stats. What kind of pulp fiction is complete without the lumbering nazi cyborg?

They gave up that idea when Captain America joined the Avengers.

d20 Future is a good book save for some major problems regarding star ship battle and rules on robots & mecha. Though if you wanted a real sci-fi rule set that worked well I'd try Alternity. Pity it hasn't been in print since 99. This is why I have to use d20, its an ok system but not the best for the games I like to run, being a little too simple and not as 'realistic' as I would like. Sure its a game but when you play in a modern type world somethings should be more like life.

The main problem I suppose is hit points. Past level 7 characters start taking multiple gun shots and keep on moving without too much hassle. Has anyone thought of a way to limit this problem? The massive damage save and threshold work well but aren't quite enough IMO.

Coan wrote:
The main problem I suppose is hit points. Past level 7 characters start taking multiple gun shots and keep on moving without too much hassle. Has anyone thought of a way to limit this problem? The massive damage save and threshold work well but aren't quite enough IMO.

Use Variable DCs for massive damage threshhold for start (from Unearthed Arcana) - in that way, surviving a cannonball isn't easy task...

Spice it with variable hit point loss - ie you go at -2 if you lose your save for massive damage which exceeds by 10 your massive damage thresshold, you go at -3 if it exceeds it by 20 and so on...

Well, otherwise, surviving multiple gun shots at level 7 seems quite fair for me, after all. And criticals hurt a lot. I think the massive damage thresholds are enough to stop the players from playing foolishly.

Ryan Naylor wrote:There seems to be a lot of opposition to the idea of converting RL to a d20 modern system. Why is that? Do some people like the idea of Masque modern but not RL modern? Any reasons? Thoughts? Bitter whining?

To be frank, I didn´t get to like the the feat system and whole the way of generation the playing character that, in my opinion, affect illogically to some extent. That´s why I prefer ADnD classes and kits.

Small example: How can the PC do magic when he is partially fighter, partially spellcaster, partially filosofer and partially...i don´t know....musician? To manage the magic, I suppose, requires to take a full (or better STRONG) devotion and concentration to the study.

Coan wrote:Hmm this brings things into an interesting perspective.

Ravenloft Future?

The Dark Powers now expand their playground to the Milky Way galaxy as their dark tendrils permiate the fabric of space.

Dark Lords become agents of Darkness with elderitch powers. The question would be 'In a galaxy where science can accomplish so much, how can you make the Dark Lords and evil unexpected?'

I'll think of a way.

You could try giving them a black mask and breathing difficulties...

Wait, that's been done.

Vannax wrote:
To be frank, I didn´t get to like the the feat system and whole the way of generation the playing character that, in my opinion, affect illogically to some extent. That´s why I prefer ADnD classes and kits.

Small example: How can the PC do magic when he is partially fighter, partially spellcaster, partially filosofer and partially...i don´t know....musician? To manage the magic, I suppose, requires to take a full (or better STRONG) devotion and concentration to the study.

Nope, if you just give it less effort, you'll have less results. As simple as that. You don't have to be obsessed with magic to cast some cantrips.

tec-goblin wrote:

Vannax wrote: Nope, if you just give it less effort, you'll have less results. As simple as that. You don't have to be obsessed with magic to cast some cantrips.

I didn´t wrote of obsession and don´t think that just the effort is the key to develepment.
Let´t take for example some talented swordsman. He is agile and has a lot of effort. But without right leading he will develop techniques slowly. In order to get better he must take lessons of some experienced person (instructor, master of sword...). And it TAKES TIME to control new techniques perfectly.
I cannot imagine an adventurer which split his effort to four acctivities how he find mentors and instructors willing to teach him in RL and how many time it would take him to manage all his four activities. Does he have enough time to be an adventurer then? I´m not convinced. And if so, then that is the true obsession and such a PC should possibly make a madness check

Tec-Goblin wrote:

Well, otherwise, surviving multiple gun shots at level 7 seems quite fair for me, after all. And criticals hurt a lot. I think the massive damage thresholds are enough to stop the players from playing foolishly.

Oooh.

This is the biggest beef I have with using d20 rules in a modern campaign. If you get shot, you will die. There's no 'massive damage', no 'hit points' - you get shot, you're down in the dirt. If it isn't from the massive internal damage, it's from the shock and bleedout. Now, if the game was a sort of heroic, comic-booky type place, then yeah, sure, people can take a few in the chest and keep on kickin'.

But it's not, it's Ravenloft. Which means death is final, it's harsh, and it's easy. There's a lot more horror involved when a single low-cal bullet will kill the twisted old man spouting prophecies. If that old man is a level 16 smart hero, then you have to shoot him dozens of times. That's not dramatic, that doesn't drive home the suddeness and finality of death on the mean streets. Emptying a clip of 5.56 into a hobo just to be sure he goes down is stupid.

*ahem*

I apologize for the rage in my rant; I'm still kinda pissed that WoTC destroyed Alternity.[/quote]

Gremmith Mi wrote:There's a lot more horror involved when a single low-cal bullet will kill the twisted old man spouting prophecies. If that old man is a level 16 smart hero, then you have to shoot him dozens of times.

But isn't that the point of the Massive Damage threshold - that a single attack that deals a large amount of damage kills instantly?

Also, I too am angry about the untimely demise of the Alternity setting. I was a big fan of Dark Matter.

Oooh, damn. Dark Matter was an absolutely fscking awesome setting, and I've been trying to get my campaign for it working for quite some time. The main problem is the fact that I'm trying to integrate three different groups of characters, some from the American Wild West in 1863, some from the jungles of Cambodia in 1967, and some from Chicago in 2004.

It's... tricky.

Gremmith Mi wrote: Oooh.

This is the biggest beef I have with using d20 rules in a modern campaign. If you get shot, you will die. There's no 'massive damage', no 'hit points' - you get shot, you're down in the dirt. If it isn't from the massive internal damage, it's from the shock and bleedout. Now, if the game was a sort of heroic, comic-booky type place, then yeah, sure, people can take a few in the chest and keep on kickin'.

But it's not, it's Ravenloft. Which means death is final, it's harsh, and it's easy. There's a lot more horror involved when a single low-cal bullet will kill the twisted old man spouting prophecies. If that old man is a level 16 smart hero, then you have to shoot him dozens of times.

Excuse me- how many people have survived gun shots? many many thousands. And most of them wouldn't even qualify for level 5. Hello? Ravenloft has heroes. It HAS people who have survived from overcoming odds. And it HAS people with many many scars. It is gritty, but it doesn't need to be more gritty than reality, yeah??
And, of course, 1: YOU CANNOT BE A L16 smart hero 2: If you have low constitution (as most smart heroes will), EVERY single shot is a potential massive damage threat - particulary critical hits. You HAVE to avoid bullets, because, particularly if you are alone, any single one could kill you. Of course, most of the time, you will survive multiple shots at l16. But, if you remember d20 rules correctly, multiple shots DOESN'T mean multiple well-placed shots. If you have a lot of hit points, that tends to mean that shots just scratched you - you avoided them hitting you in vital organs. So, it DOES make sense, as much a l16 person makes sense anyway (and l16 is very very rare in reality and quite rare in Ravenloft)

Gremmith Mi wrote:This is the biggest beef I have with using d20 rules in a modern campaign. If you get shot, you will die. There's no 'massive damage', no 'hit points' - you get shot, you're down in the dirt.

Uh, that is death from massive damage. That's what allows you to make such an exception to the hit points rule. And TG's right, many people have survived gunshot wounds, with the proper medical attention. In RL this would be replaced by a cleric, and if you're getting so "gritty" that you remove clerics to make it more fatalistic, you have that right, but it's not canon.

With massive damage rules, it's not unheard of for that 16th level Smart hero to die from a single shot.