Real life fear/horror/madness

[HuManBing]

Asian women can be weird.

One of my exes was from a conservative country in Southeast Asia. In my ill-advised youth, I decided to try to lighten things up, so I went and bought her something which I'll euphemistically call a "back massager". It actually looked like one too - it looked like a proper, medical, therapy device with a long handle. It was designed to appear fairly innocuous. And of course its primary use was nowhere near the spine.

All these awkward details will become important very soon.

I presented it proudly to my girlfriend, who much to my surprise was greatly offended and horrified. Apparently, according to her culture, I had done something similar to saying "You are not a real woman and this is something I got you to make up for your miserable deficiency - may there be everlasting shame upon your dynasty and frogs."

She put it to one side and it collected dust, and I promised myself I would never make that mistake again.

A few months into our relationship, her parents came from {country name redacted} and stayed with her. She tidied up beforehand, but evidently not well enough, because her dad found her back massager lying around. As luck would have it, he was completely taken in by its apparent harmlessness and immediately thought "This looks comfy" and began massaging his back with it.

This was not my intended original application of the device but he appeared to enjoy it fairly well. Well enough that he asked his daughter where she'd gotten it. She told him "You'll have to ask Bing about that."

He asked me but I didn't tell him.

You can imagine for yourself what the store looked like.

[HuManBing]

Oh! A very similar story.

A completely separate Asian girlfriend from a conservative southeast Asian nation went into One Of Those Stores with her female friends.

The completely separate Asian girlfriend was very naive.

Her: "Look at all these ethnic candles!"

Friend: "That is not a candle."

[LadySoth]

Bing, all these stories about cultural misunderstanding are incredibly interesting, and, if I may ask, do you think its easier to date people from your own culture or to date people from different cultures?

I myself have tried on a couple of occasions to date outside of my cultural group and while you can easily fall in love with someone and have a very passionate relationship from any culture, it tends to be difficult to agree sometimes on finer points of a relationship when your partner is expecting you to act like a woman from his culture would act, and obviously this isn't always possible because all cultures are different. Also there are almost always problems with the inlaws/family of both parties accepting anyone from a different culture.

One of my closest and dearest friends is of a different culture, and while I really do love him, his family would never approve of me as a good choice for their son. Although he is more liberal than his family is, his culture is extremely tight-knit and he feels understandably bound to his parent's approval. Sadly, I don't think we will ever be more than friends, just due to the pervailing excessive pressure from his parents to marry a nice girl from his own culture.

[Zettaijin]

Weirdness is in the eye of the beholder.

What we find familiar and normal is probably backwards and weird to someone else. In the post-French revolution world of Nation States where the very vague and slippery notion of culture has overtaken more traditional concepts such as civilization, we tend to forget that within a single given Nation State there exist a multitude of "cultures", that is sets of traditions, values, and ideas that - along with socio-economical and technological factors - create sometimes vast behavioural and ideological differences between citizens of the same "culture".

For example, a devout conservative Christian girl from a well off family would probably have issues with me as an atheist from a proletarian family and a heavy anarcho/Marxist political past even if she as a pasty white Canadian. I should know, I dated one for a few weeks!

Now that's horror for you!

As for Asian girls being weird, I'd say it's less the Asian part than a lack of exposure to various foreign concepts. As a foreigner in Japan, I find myself struggling not to act like what locals would consider to be a mentally challenged individual everywhere I go.

As a last example, one of my female friends in Canada has a few tattoos and a belly button piercing. She's in her mid 40's and had most of that work done in her late 30's. Being obsessed with youth, she adopted the style of trendy younger girls, not realizing that by the time she made her move, the style was already a bit passé.

So, she has the lower back tribal tattoo and a pierced navel, and as far as she's concerned she's at the cutting edge. Not only that, but she's openly flaunting her style as rebellious! When I bug her about her rather mundane body modifications (I attended huge numbers of metal and punk shows where tattoos and piercings are the norm rather than the exception) and enquire as to why she didn't opt for nose rings, eyebrow rings, or non-conventional tattoos, she usually replies with shock and horror.

"How am I supposed to find work if I do that? You have to conform!"
"But you're constantly flaunting your 'rebellious spirit' - wouldn't a few lip rings help? How about an elaborate upper back tattoo? You're always talking about ho wonderful it is to see girls with impressively inked bodies."
"I have a navel piercing and a lower back tattoo!"
"So do tons of girls... and for good reasons! They're easy to cover up and allow you to go from 'pseudo-rebel' to 'clean cut' easily. But being as it is, they're only rebellious in the more conservative circles."
"You just don't get it!"

And a former co-worker posted pics of her new knee high leather boots on Facebook in an album devoted to their glory. Problem is, most of the pictures showed everything BUT her boots.

Her brother was the first to express this openly, to which she answered "You just don't understand women!"

[HuManBing]

do you think its easier to date people from your own culture or to date people from different cultures?

The highlighted bit is the bit that's giving me trouble. I've lived my life in roughly equal durations in Britain, the USA, and China, so it's actually hard to even define my own cultural background. I've often told people when they ask me where I'm from that I'm just a professional foreigner. All of the women I've dated were also foreigners in the relevant country. Maybe there's some attraction based on the shared background of being strangers in a strange land or something. Or possibly just strange.

In all honesty, my dating choices are pretty much decided on a per-capita basis - namely, whether the other person can put up with my constant perpetration of weird random crap. This limitation reduces the statistical sampling universe to fairly modest numbers, but it can result in situations that even I find slightly weird, like CitiesOfGold asking me to take her to see corpses on Valentine's Day.

Specifically about cultures, it's true that it makes for an obstacle in relations - but it need not be insurmountable. If both parties are from ethnically diverse communities, then it might be a lesser issue, because early acclimatization helps each one accept a variety of ethnic practices and outlooks. But if one party is from an ethnically homogenous background, then the onus often falls on the other party to extend themselves to accommodate the inflexible party. Three years of that can wear out almost anybody.

The specific character of the individuals is important too. Examples abound of people who were raised in conservative or repressive cultures (e.g. females in China) who decided "to hell with this" and come to North America to completely reinvent themselves. If they've made a clean break from their background, then it's much easier to move ahead. Individual outlook may be even more important than culture - COG lived here with her entire Catholic family, who did not fully approve of our relationship, but she and I got along really well. EXG lived here alone with her Muslim family far away in Southeast Asia, enjoying my back massager, and she and I nonetheless had pretty epic cultural misunderstandings.

In short, I'd say that culture is like any other relationship variable such as education, politics, or religious background - it will skew the dynamic one way or another. If the personal dynamic between the parties is strong enough, then it doesn't have to be a disqualifying element. One of the best ways I've found to determine the strength of the personal dynamic is to keep open communication between both parties, and also to "know thyself". Know what you like and what you don't. Be clear about what you will tolerate and what you will not. Everybody has boundaries, and it's best to be clear about them.

But liking Ravenloft is non negotiable. >:l

[LadySoth]

One of the best ways I've found to determine the strength of the personal dynamic is to keep open communication between both parties, and also to "know thyself". Know what you like and what you don't. Be clear about what you will tolerate and what you will not. Everybody has boundaries, and it's best to be clear about them.

l

This is a great quote! Thanks both of you for the responses, its always great to hear what other people on here think.

Bing, especially liked the part about liking Ravenloft being non-negotiable. I once tried to introduce a boyfriend to the series through the Strahd novels. He got through the first one, but couldn't understand why I liked them so much. He said, "but Strahd's such a bastard!" and I said, yeah, well that's the point. That's why he's so cool, because he just does what ever the heck he wants and gets away with it!

Zetta, I really liked your story about your friend with the tattoos. I think tasteful meaningful tattoos are awesome (or even ones that are "distasteful" to someone, if it has some special meaning to you, or you feel so strongly about that particular image that you want it on your body, I say go for it), but you do also have to be aware of where you get them and when you have to keep covered up. An aquaintence of mine is heavily tattooed, yet has a career as a professional musician in a classical orchestra. None of his bandmates know he's inked, because he always shows up in his tux ready to play. I can agree with your POV to a certain extent, that if you want to be rebelious you should just do what you want, go to the ultimate extreme, in theory. However, in the real world, I also think its fine if you just want to be a rebel in your private life and not share that with anyone. I.e. people like that guy who have tattoos and keep them covered because the tattoos are personal and they don't feel like sharing them with the world. Its not a case of not being brave enough or whatnot, its just a deal of not wanting to be bothered I think. Some people are really idiots. You can be yourself, but no one says you have to be the loudest, most radical version of yourself all the time. Its one thing to go to a punk/metal concert, its really hard to live your life that way 24/7 though IMO.

Edit: that said, I do agree with you that the lower back tribals, and tribals in general anywhere, are really passe and trendy. Just like koi fish. How many people are getting koi fish arm tats this year like there's no tomorrow? A trendy tattoo is a crappy tattoo IMO. Its like all those people who named their kids Darth after the first Star Wars came out. A stigma that will haunt you for the rest of your life. Well not as bad as one friend of mine who's named Conan, after, you guessed it, the Schwarzenegger film. Which is an awesome movie, but come on, do you really want your kid to be a barbarian king? Well, maybe they do . . .

sorry to gum up your thread bing with pointless chatter. Will post some more madness/fear checks soon.
Cheers.

[HuManBing]

sorry to gum up your thread bing with pointless chatter.

WHAT?!

Are you suggesting that there is anything in this thread APART from pointless chatter?!?!

[Manofevil]

You actually know people who were named DARTH? That IS a horror!

[Zettaijin]

Well not as bad as one friend of mine who's named Conan, after, you guessed it, the Schwarzenegger film. Which is an awesome movie, but come on, do you really want your kid to be a barbarian king?

Or a late night talk show host.

[HuManBing]

A very short story.

I showed a friend a photo of myself taken when I was 16. She looked at me, horrified.

Her: Oh my god! You were so beautiful! What the hell happened to you?

Me:

[LadySoth]

^
: Post the pic!

[HuManBing]

This is actually me back when I was 16. The only thing in this picture that's stayed with me is the jacket, and that's really not doing too well either.

Horror checks all round.

[LadySoth]

haha. Great pic!

[Manofevil]

You sold your face to propagandists?

[HuManBing]

You sold your face to propagandists?

I was young! I was broke! I needed the money to pay for Master's degree textbooks!