Ghostsight feat?

[Joël of the FoS]

Interesting thoughts, keep them going.

The PCs are entering Harrowstone prison, a place that burned 50 years ago and everybody died confined in their cells, so tons of ghost opportunities.

At first, I was a bit uncomfortable with the player taking this timely feat with his new PC (they suspected the prison to be haunted), but I decided to play along and scare him instead.

On a balcony that served as an execution ground, he saw the spirit of about 20 ghosts, headless (they were executed), fighting endlessly over a number of heads that is slightly less than their number. It was slightly comical, but tragical too. I plan to make his visions more and more tragical with time, so your ideas are welcomed.

I wonder on a few ways to play the feat:

- does he sees them all the time or does he have to concentrate on it (as a free action)? The second is much easier for DMs (can't forget it), and you do not have to invent new ghosts all the time they pass through a new city (that will become borring for him, as well to the other players).

- Someone mentioned fear and horror DCs. Interesting, I had the same idea, but I don't want it to look as if I'm punishing this player. When to use DCs, if ever?

Joël

[Five]

Things I'd make myself try to remember:

- Not all ghosts have visible wounds for the Ghostsight to see (to tip them off). Victims of backstabs would look ordinary if not for some blood spotted clothing (which may or may not require a Spot check). Even if blood is spotted, it may not neccessarily mean that the individual in question is dead. Victims that were choked to death may also require a Spot check to note the bruising around their necks. Especially from any distance outside of personal space. Same goes for those victims that were hanged. Well, those that never had their necks twisted into something abnormally horrible. Hell, a slit throat might not be immediately noticeable until the PC reaches out, turns the figure in question by the shoulder, and is left gawking at the suddenly backwards-hanging head!

Yeah, I'd rule limited physical interaction with ghosts with this particular feat. Just cos it'd be cool.

- Over time, the PC should (hopefully) begin to develop a desensitised view of these means of death (like the stereotypical homicide detective) and this should be reflected in their Fear and Horror saves. First starting, and depending on the character's background and perhaps class, I'd go fairly heavy on the saves (all the while saving some beauts for later play just to keep the saves relevant). It's the price he pays for bearing witness to the atrocities of mankind.

- If the PC has to focus to use the ability/feat, then that might still lead to an expectation for the DM to always provide a ready-made ghost, just as if it were active at all times. The key things to remember are Anchors and Triggers. Control them and I can keep the fun in the feat. Also, the feat is limited by the PCs line of sight, not every building the character walks into will be a haunt, and I doubt there are many ghosts anchored to major public areas. Point being, as long as the DM lets the player put some use into the feat they have chosen then all should work out nice and fun. Time and a place, like every other feat, ability, and skill.

That's all for now

[Sareau]

I might impose some sort of Perception check to see if the character realizes he's seeing the Ethereal. Otherwise, everything here is very good.

[Five]

I might impose some sort of Perception check to see if the character realizes he's seeing the Ethereal.

Yeah, agreed.

Also, it might be fun to slip the player notes (or pictures: http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljypz ... o1_400.jpg / http://content9.flixster.com/photo/11/4 ... 43_sma.jpg) whenever they attempt to use their Ghostsight feat. It could help keep things personal, and the other players from getting a spoiler. Now, there will be times when the sightings are mundane (failed check, just plain old nothing in the Near Ethereal), so I'd play the brain game with a grin.

[Jester of the FoS]

This feat always bugged me, as it was similar to granting undead specific "see invisibility", and could arguably halve the miss effect of spells like blink. It's really a "DM discretion" feat.

[Sareau]

I think that a overview of the Ethereal is necessary-especially landmarks, etc. Ghosts can still retreat to the Deep Ethereal, or maybe brush up on their Hide and Move Silently scores-invisibility IS relative.

[Five]

Ghosts can still retreat to the Deep Ethereal, or maybe brush up on their Hide and Move Silently scores-invisibility IS relative.

I'd go for that. Worst-case the ghost is spotted, knows it got spotted, then retreats ('physically' around the corner, into a crowd, etc. before the Deep Ethereal), leaving the PC with some potentially lingering doubts. Depends on the specifics of the ghost really. Some would care, some wouldn't, others would be completely oblivious.

Also could offer the ghost an opposing check, as modified by their magnitude of power..

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

This feat always bugged me, as it was similar to granting undead specific "see invisibility", and could arguably halve the miss effect of spells like blink. It's really a "DM discretion" feat.

I don't really have a problem with that. It's more than undead-specific, it's ethereal-specific. An invisible Chiang-Shi isn't in the ethereal (IIRC. no books at hand), and wouldn't be seen. Hadn't thought about the effect on blink, but yeah, that makes sense. I would rule it counts for dropping the blink miss change from 50 to 20, as per the spell description. So? big whoop. Blink's too powerful anyway, and how often does it come up?

It's primarily a role-playing feat, and if it's got some crunch benefits, that's great. I'd rather a PC take an interesting feat like ghostsight that's useful in battle very rarely over something incrementally useful all the time but boring like Weapon Focus or Dodge.

[Zilfer]

but that extra +1 could save your life!

Anyways I agree with most people here that it's more of a cool background type feat, and i also agree at first horror saves should be common. (the PC that took it in my campaign was talking to a ghost that looked normal.... until he turned around, and then got facinated by the "dagger in the back of head")

Since then it's become a joke around our table to check the back of our heads for daggers. xD

After awhile though the person would get used to seeing such things and i don't think would call for a horror check. Unless they are an innocent maybe.... but i wouldn't throw it at them every time. If you do lower the DC's quite a bit and give them a bonus to the saves.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

After awhile though the person would get used to seeing such things and i don't think would call for a horror check. Unless they are an innocent maybe.... but i wouldn't throw it at them every time. If you do lower the DC's quite a bit and give them a bonus to the saves.

By the rules as written, even being called on to make a horror check is enough to make you lose Innocence forever. (Personally, I think that's so harsh that it makes Innocence a useless rule for PCs. I see the reasoning behind it, but it's unworkable.)

[Zilfer]

Are you sure? I could have sworn that it's only if you failed a horror check.... <.<' if so yeah that Feat isn't very useful because doesn't it give bonus' to those types of saves? o.O' I think i'll continue to play it in my game how i "htought it worked". xD

[Joël of the FoS]

I plan to change a few things to this feat. The first thing that bugs me is when the player walks in a city or a prison where everybody died because of a fire. I don't want as a DM to always have to invent cool things this player sometimes sees in the ethereal. It can derail the game, IMHO.

Second, bluntly, as a DM tool, a ghost has to remain unseen for some plot to work.

So these are the added changes (underlined). Please comment!

Ghostsight [General]
You can see creatures in the Near Ethereal.
Since ghosts make up the majority of creatures in Ravenloft's Near Ethereal, folklore views this as the ability to see the dead.
Prerequisite: You must have had a brush with death (been reduced to —1 hit points or lower, or
slain and then brought back to life).
Benefit: As a standard action (“use supernatural ability”), you have to concentrate on this feat to try to see ethereal creatures. It doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. However, sometimes this feat activates without you realize it.
You can see creatures that are ethereal as if they were normally visible. Unlike the
see invisible spell, this capacity does not reveal illusions or allow you to see invisible or astral
creatures. Your ability to see ethereal creatures is limited only by your own visual range. You are
vulnerable to gaze attacks from ethereal creatures.
You have no special ability to hear or physically affect ethereal creatures. This is a supernatural
ability.
Duration: once you see an ethereal creature, you keep seeing it as long as it remain in your line of sight.
DM’s PRECISION: Some ghosts died horribly and seeing their maimed bloody image can be the cause of a horror check.
Special - 1: You are strangely attuned to the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures can see you
unusually clearly and must succeed at a Spot check at DC 15 to realize that you are not actually
in the Near Ethereal as well. These creatures may even be drawn to you out of curiosity, desperation, or malice.
Special - 2: Sometimes, a ghost can choose to remain unseen from you. When you activate this supernatural ability, you always make a d20 Spot check in case of this situation, plus your usual SPOT bonus, and a + 2 bonus from this supernatural ability. A ghost succeeds to hide from you with a better Hide check.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I plan to change a few things to this feat. The first thing that bugs me is when the player walks in a city or a prison where everybody died because of a fire. I don't want as a DM to always have to invent cool things this player sometimes sees in the ethereal. It can derail the game, IMHO.

If that worries you, then your changes are reasonable. Personally, I just assume that the character is seeing ghosts pretty much all the time, since they are pretty much everywhere. I only describe and point out the ones that seem important and hand-wave away the rest.

Second, bluntly, as a DM tool, a ghost has to remain unseen for some plot to work.

Note that the ghostsighted character can't see through walls or otherwise detect ghosts that are hiding. Ghosts can make Hide checks, and always move silently if they choose to. And since they can walk through solid objects, they can submerge into the ground and be completely hidden from sight, if they know where they are going, or just peek out with their eyes, giving them a huge bonus to the hide check.

If the DM needs the ghost to hide, the ghost hides.

[Joël of the FoS]

Well indeed. I realize I changed one thing (need to concentrate) and the rest is mainly precisions. I wanted to say under which limits the feat works, so the player isn't surprised one day.

Thanks for the feedback.