Introducing New Players to RL

[Blot]

A Lamordian in Dementlieu can be just as alienated as a Greyhawker in Barovia.

Very vaild point! One of the things that I find works best - stealing from White Wolf a little - is the idea of prelude; running a solo adventure for each individual character before bringing the group together. That way you should be able to personalise the horror and the gothic elements to each player, which should build on the alienation and make a sense of isolation easier to imbed.

[ewancummins]

I love using native characters too. It makes everything more personal, and changes the dynamic from "get the heck out of here and back home ASAP. Forget the poor doomed (artificial?) sods who live in this hellhole." to "fight the good fight, no matter how hopeless it may seem. make this dark world a better place, one life at a time."

I let players play natives or outworlders, as they please. So far, I think I've had just one outworlder PC.

I don't quite get the artificial people thing. Why would PCs assume that people they meet are artificial?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I don't quite get the artificial people thing. Why would PCs assume that people they meet are artificial?

I was referencing the old debate we used to get into on the Ravenloft-L mailing list over whether the inhabitants of Ravenloft (or at least those domains that were copied from prime worlds or created whole-cloth) were "real" or not. You're right that PCs would have little reason to jump to this conclusion, but players who know more than their characters might. And if the PCs saw the domain get created (which happens sometimes in Weekend in Hell adventures, or as a transition adventure between the PCs' homeworld and Ravenloft) they might catch on and jump to the same conclusion.

[Jack of Tears]

I was referencing the old debate we used to get into on the Ravenloft-L mailing list over whether the inhabitants of Ravenloft (or at least those domains that were copied from prime worlds or created whole-cloth) were "real" or not.

I never liked this "false people" approach; I've always played it that a domain which is snatched up by Ravenloft is real and the people in it are drug away with the land ... sucks for them, but those are the breaks. Mind you, it sometimes changes people's memories - which would be very interesting to experience as PCs drug in as well ... would their memories alter or might they be the only people whose memories remain undamaged? - but I always felt that even hinting at the possibility that these might not be real people completely removes all responsibility from the players ... suddenly it doesn't matter who they kill as collateral damage, they're all fake anyway.

[Blot]

Was re-reading Gaz II a few days ago, and keeping 'S' eventual planned revelations in mind, I was taken by how many times she refered to being 'glad to know that she was real'. Nice and subtle piece of foreshadowing I thought.

I think that that would be nice to play around with Player Character wise; are you real or just a construct created to pad out some maniacs cell?

[Rotipher of the FoS]

One thing I try to do with Ravenloft NPC communities is to make sure that there's always something that the locals are working on, or planning to do, that's completely mundane and unrelated to the storyline. It could be as routine as the apple harvest or cattle-market day, or a noteworthy village event like the construction of a new well-house or the wedding of the burgomaster's daughter, but it's always a background reminder that these people aren't just set-pieces that stand around waiting for the PCs to pass through: they have lives, they're busy, they have more on their minds than just worrying about the local boogeyman.

Granted, sometimes this comes off like the Attack Of The Town Festival cliche to genre-savvy players, but after a few sessions, they catch on that it's not necessarily a set-up for a storyline: it's just day-to-day life in progress.

[ewancummins]

I don't quite get the artificial people thing. Why would PCs assume that people they meet are artificial?

I was referencing the old debate we used to get into on the Ravenloft-L mailing list over whether the inhabitants of Ravenloft (or at least those domains that were copied from prime worlds or created whole-cloth) were "real" or not. You're right that PCs would have little reason to jump to this conclusion, but players who know more than their characters might. And if the PCs saw the domain get created (which happens sometimes in Weekend in Hell adventures, or as a transition adventure between the PCs' homeworld and Ravenloft) they might catch on and jump to the same conclusion.

The Dark Powers (if they exist) must have godlike powers. Creation of intelligent beings is well within the power of gods. Forming lands? Ditto.

Now, you might argue that the inhabitants of a newly created domain are real people with false memories, but I don't see anything to support them not being real people. They are physically real, and every indication is that they have souls and minds the same as anyone.

YMMV

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Now, you might argue that the inhabitants of a newly created domain are real people with false memories, but I don't see anything to support them not being real people. They are physically real, and every indication is that they have souls and minds the same as anyone.

For the record, I agree with this sentiment, but there have been many who disagree, calling them "holodeck" people and the like...

[ewancummins]

Now, you might argue that the inhabitants of a newly created domain are real people with false memories, but I don't see anything to support them not being real people. They are physically real, and every indication is that they have souls and minds the same as anyone.

For the record, I agree with this sentiment, but there have been many who disagree, calling them "holodeck" people and the like...

If that's how they like to play it, kewl beans. It makes no sense to me, but as I always say...YMMV.

[Zilfer]

Ok my two cents is..... even if they aren't real.... they think and feel don't they? If they don't how can you ever be sure? Regardless since they can think and feel does that make them any less of a person than you... how do you know that YOU aren't the one the land made up to interact with the REAL people you think aren't real....

Heh, that would be an interesting twist at the end of a campaign to find out.... you were never real... o.O'

[ewancummins]

Ok my two cents is..... even if they aren't real.... they think and feel don't they? If they don't how can you ever be sure? Regardless since they can think and feel does that make them any less of a person than you... how do you know that YOU aren't the one the land made up to interact with the REAL people you think aren't real....

Heh, that would be an interesting twist at the end of a campaign to find out.... you were never real... o.O'

Yup. Hcek, at the meta-level, all PCs and NPCs are 'holodeck people.'

I recall a certain module (for another game) in which the PCs may learn that they are PCs in an RPG played by the players...



I think the 'these people are not real, so they don't matter to me' is rather close to a sociopathic outlook. Power Checks, here we come...

[Zilfer]

Ok my two cents is..... even if they aren't real.... they think and feel don't they? If they don't how can you ever be sure? Regardless since they can think and feel does that make them any less of a person than you... how do you know that YOU aren't the one the land made up to interact with the REAL people you think aren't real....

Heh, that would be an interesting twist at the end of a campaign to find out.... you were never real... o.O'

Yup. Hcek, at the meta-level, all PCs and NPCs are 'holodeck people.'

I recall a certain module (for another game) in which the PCs may learn that they are PCs in an RPG played by the players...



I think the 'these people are not real, so they don't matter to me' is rather close to a sociopathic outlook. Power Checks, here we come...

oh most certainly. XD

[DeepShadow of FoS]

Well that's partly the crux of the FoS, isn't it? They have figured out that their world is nothing but dreams, and they plot to usurp the role of dreamer.

Wasn't there a Shakespeare redux where his characters discover they are characters, and plot to free themselves from his "tyranny of authorship?"

[ewancummins]

Well that's partly the crux of the FoS, isn't it? They have figured out that their world is nothing but dreams, and they plot to usurp the role of dreamer.

Wasn't there a Shakespeare redux where his characters discover they are characters, and plot to free themselves from his "tyranny of authorship?"

All the PCs and NPCs, including the FoS are 'dreams'- they exist in our imaginations, as characters in make-believe.

It could be argued that all of us, in the real world, are the dreams of God.

If you are familiar with the idea of maya, then you know that some religions consider this life to be an illusion.

We're getting into heavy-duty metaphysical territory.

[Blot]

Well that's partly the crux of the FoS, isn't it? They have figured out that their world is nothing but dreams, and they plot to usurp the role of dreamer.

Wasn't there a Shakespeare redux where his characters discover they are characters, and plot to free themselves from his "tyranny of authorship?"

You're thinking 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead' by Tom Stoppard - Which is a beautiful piece of work. The text is a better read than the film, which I thought didn't convey the humour as well as it could (Surprisingly considering it starred Gary Oldman, Tim Roth and Richard Dreyfus).

There is a darkness to it, even though it is billed as a comedy. The two protagonists stumble upon castle Elsinore with the feeling that they've experienced those very moments before, and are compelled to obey fates dictates (which they struggle to understand as they are only two-dimensional characters) until they are executed at the end of the play.

That might work as a nice spin on a Scaena adventure actually...