Racial substitution levels for Ravenloft gnomes

[The Giamarga]

WRT = with reference to.

As for your points you're right. Do you know the 2E Complete Bard's handbook. It had character kits with similar options where you replaced the standard bard class features with different ones. This would work well with the concept of substitution levels. Perhaps there's some inspiration to be found in those character kits of old. They do have a Loremaster kit iirc.

As for your options: Secret expertise and secret masterys remind me of the secret class ability of the Loremaster PrC. It should probably be modelled after it for more homogenity. Glibness is a step back to the trickster archetype imho. Other wise i like them.

WRT the UA bardic sage variant, I agree that it is not quite enough to get away form the performer. I'll have to reread the 2E Loremaster bard variant....

An aside: Pray tell, how does orating a frog to a human differ from learning a secret and getting to live longer due to that?

[alhoon]

As for your options: Secret expertise and secret masterys remind me of the secret class ability of the Loremaster PrC. It should probably be modelled after it for more homogenity. Glibness is a step back to the trickster archetype imho. Other wise i like them.

About the Loremaster: exactly. Both classes peruse knowledge and in the way they gain something from it. In the Loremaster's case, the secrets are far more. However I don't feel I have to model the Seeker of Knowledge's secrets after the Loremaster's since the Loremaster also have powerful spells while the Seeker's spells are weaker.

Glibness IMO is not just a step back to the trickster archetype. Although I tried to keep the trickster archetype for the gnomes intact Glibness serves another role:
Seekers of knowledge IMO should be better in getting secrets out of someone. After all if you read the descriptions of the gnomes in QtR 14 they are refered to hold many secrets. So they should be better in fishing them out. Add Glibness on a good social character and you get an impressive ability to persuade/trick people in telling you their secrets while you have a better chance to be tricked in telling them your own.

An aside: Pray tell, how does orating a frog to a human differ from learning a secret and getting to live longer due to that?

Well I think the differences are obvious. Through your travels and adventures or after decades of reading books and conducting experiments you end up with a secret that helps you to extend your life.

Be it a secret like eating more vegetables or brewing certain herbs along with some minerals that conduct to a healthier gnome diet to a secret ritual of sacrificing goats under the full moon to get longevity.

It is not a matter of how the gnome Seeker prolongs his life but
1. that the method is reliable and not that difficult to do
2. that it depends more on the character's willingness to extend his life and doing all the required sacrifices than the method itself. Required sacrifices are spending hours and hours to find the way (research) to extend your life and/or shedding blood on his looong travels to do it (adventuring).
In a way, the powers that be (Dark Powers, other powers, the land itself) reward your efforts with success. Similar to how a loremaster gains after long hours of research and experimenting 3 hit points or +2 to fortitude.

That's why you have access to it at a high level and why it doesn't work on others. I mean that even if the said Seeker discovers that drinking a mix of X herbs with Y minerals once per month prolongs his life, it won't prolong the life of his loved ones or save them from disease.

[The Giamarga]

Well theoretically it should, if the others drink it, huh? But you're right it is in the same realm as the two Loremaster secrets you cite.


Speaking of which i still think that the class ability should be modeled after the Loremaster secrets. There are several other PrCs class that uses this model. You want to have a class feature give several options it is normally modeled either as pick from a list of bonus feats or you use a table with different options that are available by CL + ability modifier. This reduces availability of the more powerful ones to later levels.

It's a uniformity of class-feature design that i quite like.


PS: So do you know the Complete Bards HB?

[alhoon]

Nope. I have complete mage and I had complete warrior. Also I have to read my 2nd edition books (Except of the race books) for at least 5 years.

[cure]

A racial Gnomish substitution feat should be the Scent ability.

Maybe alchemist would be a gnomish natural class with some modification.

[alhoon]

Well, about the alchemist, I would add it as another favorite class. I mean that a gnome that pickled either alchemist or illusionist or bard, wouldn't suffer XP penalties for multiclassing in my table. Humans have them all as favorite classes, even githyanki have two favorite classes. Why shouldn't gnome have a few more?

[Jester of the FoS]

Racial substitution levels are a great idea, as are Ravenloft-specific Alternate Class Features.
If I'd known about either when I started Races of the Mists I'd have added them.

If 3E was going to be around longer I'd compile a larger, seperate and revised Races of the Mists with new information and stuff like RSLs (and an index). Heck, I'd also do a chapter for half-blood races like calibans and half-elves as well as working other races like warforged and shifters in.

Instead I'm ending it now and waiting until 4E to do those races and update the whole thing for the new system. Revised Races and such...
But since I don't know for sure what's going in the new rules I'm not even starting to work on it for the next half-year...

[alhoon]

Next month you'll see the races for 4th Edition.