A PC did an act of Ultimate Darkness to torture Strahd

[Rotipher of the FoS]

One thing stated in I, Strahd but easly overlooked is that Tatyana's evil side WAS in love with Strahd. Her purity and youth wanted to be with her betrothed Sergi but at the end right before her death her dark side lusted after Strahd, be it his looks, his power or his experiance. It was the conflict between her love for Sergi and her lust for Strahd that made her run away and fall to her death.

Only if you take Strahd's retelling of the event from "I , Strahd" at face value. Do you really think Strahd could bear to admit -- even in his own propaganda-piece -- that she would never, ever respond positively to his advances? Face it: Strahd only wanted Tatyana, he never even came close to *knowing* her. Even if he'd been 30 years younger, his past history as a warlord and his deep cynicism and bitterness would've repelled her; blaming his greater chronological age is just Strahd seeking an easy excuse for why she didn't choose him, rather than his brother: a kinder, gentler, and more gracious man.

FWIW, if I ever did let Strahd get his mits on a Tatyana-duplicate (which I would never do, for various reasons), I think a far simpler way to make him miserable would be if -- rather than having her turn Evil and betray him as a result -- he simply came to realize, once he actually got to know her, that they genuinely have nothing whatsoever in common. He was a warrior, she a peace-lover. He was a domineering nobleman, she a kind and down-to-earth peasant lass. He was bitter, resentful, unpious and misanthropic, she was a philanthropist whose faith -- in gods, in goodness, and in humanity -- gave her strength. Really, it was his envy of Sergei that made Strahd desire Tatyana in the first place -- the desire to step into his younger brother's shoes, romantically as in all other respects -- rather than any genuine resonance between his personality and Tatyana's. Far more than her betrayal or corruption or the bleakness of eternal undeath, I honestly feel that the realization that they're simply not right for one another -- never were, never could be -- would cut Strahd more deeply than anything else: it'd prove, once and for all, that his murder of Sergei and all the horrors to follow was an exercise in futility. Not because of what he's done or what he's become, but because of Strahd's very nature as a person ... the one thing even the DPs can't change for him.

[Willowhugger]

I agree.

Essentially, the player wants to show Strahd in excruciating detail that his life is a lie. Given the less value I place on the DP's "protecting" their subjects in my campaign, I'm wondering whether to make Strahd suicidal or insane or what.

[Jester of the FoS]

That is rather good, but does mean the Dark Powers will have to find another way to torture Strahd.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Yes, it would mean shifting the focus of Strahd's curse. My guess is that, if they can't taunt him with Tatyana's image, they'd either switch over to *Sergei's* image -- let the apparent ghost of Sergei appear every night, not attacking or even accusing Strahd, but forgiving his murderous sibling over and over (which would only make his killer feel worse ;-D) -- or else target the basic hypocrisy Strahd's been engaging in all along, by taking his original desire for restored youth, and granting it ... but only by erasing all those years of military victories that Strahd's been feeding his own ego on, all these centuries. All those years ago, Strahd wished he hadn't squandered his youth at warfare; if the DPs take away his victories, leaving him as a mere anonymous noble-in-exile, with no lands or status or basis for his superiority-complex, I'm pretty sure he'd have second thoughts about that desire, after it's far, far too late to change it.

[The Lesser Evil]

What if the new focus for Strahd's curse was to find change his would-be bride to make her more like him? Or to find a new companion? Or even more unlikely. Strahd tries to change and redeem himself and his dark nature to meet Tatyana's approval, but for each step he takes to redeem himself, he takes two steps backward into the darkness.

[Jester of the FoS]

Or what if, just what if, by realizing how little he has in common with her he suddenly realizes his mistake. It hits him how truly wrong and self deluded he has been after all these years and how he has spent ages obsessing over nothing. And thus begins his total epiphany where he comes to realize he is a monster and tried to redeem himself.

[Willowhugger]

Or what if, just what if, by realizing how little he has in common with her he suddenly realizes his mistake. It hits him how truly wrong and self deluded he has been after all these years and how he has spent ages obsessing over nothing. And thus begins his total epiphany where he comes to realize he is a monster and tried to redeem himself.

Highly unlikely but if I did do it, I know how the player would do it. Strahd, freed from his darklordship, seeks out the player and apologies to Tatyana and begs for her forgiveness.

In that action, she agrees and he transforms into a human.

....and then the player would shoot him in the back with his pistol.

In fact, since he's with me and reading this, I think we'll do that.

[Jester of the FoS]

Then the players fail another power check for the murder of a 'innocent' man. Ah, irony.

[lildog7]

The evil tatyana falls in love with Strahd (well, maybe just his power, evil is a sucker for power) and tries everything in her powers to seduce him into turning her to a vamp. Strahd temporarily falls for her, but soon after turning her is so greatly repulsed by her evilness that he slays her with his own hands!!! So, Strahd is once again on the trail of the good one (we assume the PC couldn't block the crystal ball).

I fail to see how any evil would repulse Stahd. I mean what on earth could she do that would turn him off?

Killing is a sport for Strahd, in Knight of the Black Rose we learn of Strahd's torture of the wererat (or whatever it was) proving the man has been able to invent ways to tourture... I don't see much that would turn him off.

What I would do if I were the DM would be have this plan backfire in a BIG way. They hand over this evil very of Tatyana... well being as she's evil she spills as much of the information she knows to Strahd and works with him in a plot against the PCs. Eventually they find themselves in a huge mess with the only way out is to kill her off... That in and of itself only feeds to Strahds fury with them.

[Willowhugger]

Then the players fail another power check for the murder of a 'innocent' man. Ah, irony.

Our current plan

The player says his character will commit suicide at that point saying "I'll see you in Hell Strahd" before stabbing himself with a certain dagger he owns as well.

Strahd will of course scream to the Dark Powers that he'll make them pay for this and have his vengeance....and wake up on his throne. Once more a vampire and a little less wiser.

Oh and the addition of an indestructible (by Strahd) 4th magnitude Ghost who stalks the lands of Barovia and leads revolts against Strahd, spreads propaganda, and induces other countries to Invade.

Strahd, will promptly abandon hsi forbidden castle sticke and then start running the kingdom like a "normal" ruler as he seeks out someone truly to be his bride and stabilize his rule.

sounds like it'll be fun

[Willowhugger]

I fail to see how any evil would repulse Stahd. I mean what on earth could she do that would turn him off?

Strahd possesses a minor level of dementia in the fact that Tatyana is something she most certainly is not. If Strahd was interested in just a hot blonde, there's plenty of them he enjoys every day in Barovia. You don't think all those beautiful women are just for luring adventurers to their deaths do you?

Killing is a sport for Strahd, in Knight of the Black Rose we learn of Strahd's torture of the wererat (or whatever it was) proving the man has been able to invent ways to tourture... I don't see much that would turn him off.

Basically, Strahd I think wants to blame Sergei for his stupidity and weakness but secretly wants Tatyana to represent all that is pure and "good" in the world so that he can have all the light of Barovia/Good restored in his heart.

I think its not odd that Strahd thinks having Tatyana will somehow "heal" him of the pain and isolation he's endured as an necromantic nutbar.

What I would do if I were the DM would be have this plan backfire in a BIG way. They hand over this evil very of Tatyana... well being as she's evil she spills as much of the information she knows to Strahd and works with him in a plot against the PCs. Eventually they find themselves in a huge mess with the only way out is to kill her off... That in and of itself only feeds to Strahds fury with them.

Mayhaps.

[Igor the Henchman]

I think I begin to sense the kind of player we're dealing with...

Well, Willowhugger, I think its safe to say that your campaign style is different enough from standard that few conventional guidelines apply. Since your players enjoy killing and taunting central characters of the setting, and that sort of plot suits you as well, I think you should just play it by ear, like you already do.

And, to the player, all I can say is: have a good time torturing the darklord I'm certain it will be a special kind of experience.

[Willowhugger]

Largely, the sort of thing is only the coup de gras to a charcter that I believe reached what I call the story plateau. Its a part of the story where the character's arc is finished and carrying on is pointless.

[lildog7]

I fail to see how any evil would repulse Stahd. I mean what on earth could she do that would turn him off?

Strahd possesses a minor level of dementia in the fact that Tatyana is something she most certainly is not.

Maybe you and I view Strahd a little differently here. Since Tatyana has come back to him time and time again, I don't think she's come back the same every time... I like the idea that Strahd is just obsessed with her more of an idea at this point then as a real person. He's created an image of her in his mind that doesn't match reality so it doesn't matter what she is in reality. Nothing would match his "idea" of what she should be.

Now an evil Tatyana would buy into most of his plots and plans... that's where I see some fun. The evil Tatyana would be the Tatyana he dreams about, yet at the same time she's everything he in reality doesn't want but he doesn't know it.