Barovian Confusion

[Snake]

Lurking in the background are the questions:

Do Barovians know what vampires are?

&

Do Barovians suspect that Count Strahd von Zarovich XI might be one?

If Strahd and his many minions feed widely, it is difficult to imagine that some vaguely truthful notion of a vampire does not exist among the Barovians.

If Strahd sticks essentially to his larder and imposes the same restriction on his few minions, it is not unimaginable that the notion of what a vampire is is nearly absent in Barovia or is hopelessly mixed up with the vastly more frequent ravages of werewolves.

And an important detail: When Strahd terminates the existence of an unscrupulous burghermeister, as he has done in the past, in what condition are the remains left?

Do Barovians know what vampires are? I guess it depends on what experiences they've had, and who told them what. They may know certain things, but not the whole vampire. For example they may know they drink blood, but they may not know that a vampire can turn into a wolf; thus when a wolf attacks someone, it may be confused with a lychan as opposed to a vampire; a rather wise hunting choice for a vampire if you ask me; this way the wolf teeth marks appear and not the vampire ones. So I guess they would know vampires exist, just not every little detail about them necessarily.

Do they suspect Strahd is a vampire? That's very tough to say imo and the answer may never be known entirely. How much has the "current" Strahd done to suggest that he isn't completely human, and for that matter, how many people believe the whole Strahd X, XI is a load of bull? Also, how many would be willing to tell others that they think the ruler of the land isn't who he says he is especially when people have disappeared in the land for being an "enemy" to it? You may keep quiet to save your own skin. Remember that in the past Strahd had "Lord Vasili" do his biddings which kept him hidden from public view even further. Even though Vasili was Strahd, if he has someone that isn't him do his bidding, than he can keep his identity hidden even further.

[Archedius]

Cure, If I remember from the novels Strahd has made examples of officials that have displeased him. If I recall correctly he has impaled the heads of some of them in town.
Also from the novels Strahd seems to be VERY careful about his feeding.
I think he himself says that he must sup lightly because if he fed as much as his thirst would have him the nation would be depopulated in a few years. Thus he mostly keeps to the larder.
I would doubt that many in Barovia would suspect Strahd to be a vampire. They have their vampire superstitions but they mostly have no reason to think their ruler to be one. Seriously, most people in Barovia are sedentary and would have no way to even know Strahd or see him.
Of the Burgomasters, from the novels (which I consider canon) they seem to think of their leader as a recluse, not a vampire. The only ones that might have some clue to his true nature are the Wachters. If I remember correctly Strahd revealed himself several decades after the wedding to the now old matron of the Wachter family.

[The Giamarga]

I'd say Barovians know the term Vampire, or better yet Vampyr. They have some knowledge, some conflicting, some plain wrong, but also much of it truth. (Don't they always hang garlic on their houses? )

Also aren't there rules for knowledge of a creature in 3E? They can make untrained knowledge checks, I'd even give them a bonus on that when relating to vampires as Barovia is so rich in legends about them.

As for Strahd some might believe in Strahd XI, some not. Some think him merely a necromancer (as that one burgomaster in I, Strahd) or a warlock.

One last thing. I'd say Vampires tend to be less popular than were-wolves. Any vampire in Barovia, Strahd is immediately drawn to, and generally Strahd brings that vampire to serve him, or...if that vampire is a threat, detroy him/her, and vampires tend to be stealthy hunters.

This is interesting. I was recently wondering what the relationship between Strahd and Nicu Moldonesti would be. That one is truly a very stealthy nosferatu. Does Strahd know of the new leader of the Ba'al Verzi?

[cure]

The dread Barovian fear of opening one's door after sunset seems directly linked to a vampire's inability (although not Strahd's) to enter a private residence unbidden.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

Prior to the reality-check of his meeting with Jandar Sunstar, Strahd had been a bit careless about keeping his vampiress slaves in check. He'd been careful not to let his own vampirism be exposed, but some of his minions' actions were uncontrolled in his first century or so of unlife.

After Jandar (a much older vampire) arrived and explained the danger of such carelessness, the Count kept his spawn on a much shorter leash. A lot of Barovians' tales about vampires probably date back to before he started being cautious, and therefore have had almost three hundred years to become distorted by time; basic rules like "garlic protects you" have survived, however, probably because they work (at least, for the darklord's underlings).

[Archedius]

Rotipher strikes again with clarification and insight! I forgot about that part of Vampire of the Mists. *shamed*

[Ail]

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, but I still think I have somethings to say.

Rotipher's first post is the one I'd draw you to. When I first read about vampires and werewolves, more than 15 years before I first read about Ravenloft, the notion I had was both monsters could be detected by looking at people who had furry hands, pointed teeth and the highbrows almost uniting. You see, you could look at a person and find the telltale signs that she was a vampire... or a werewolf.
Basically, both can transform into wolves.

Also, remember the very first editions of D&D and look up werewolf. What kind of monster is it? An Undead, if I'm not mistaken.

If even designers had them confused, it is very probable that Barovians will have them confused to. Remember not every vampire is clean in his feeding habits, they can get quite messy. I don't know if it was in Dracula, but I remember reading a scene where a vampire opened up the gorge of his victim so the blood could literally pour onto him like a fountain. This is hardly the two punctures in the neck we are used to see in films. All it cares is actually for drinking, and it doesn't make sense to drink by two tiny holes if it's in a hurry when it can actually create a strong stream like water gushing freely from a tap.

Remember also that the most folklore-ish notion of vampire is very akin to that of a ghoul, or a revenant: it's just a dead corpse that comes to feed on the living, nothing at all like the romantic nosferatu we know.

I just guess the authors of the gazetteer took this real-world confusion and simply translated it for the game-world.

Alex

[The Giamarga]

Also, remember the very first editions of D&D and look up werewolf. What kind of monster is it? An Undead, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't have the stuff here to look it up, but I do think you are indeed mistaken.

[Sylaire]

Yeah, werewolves and other lycanthropes were never "undead." But the rest of the point is still a good one.

Barovian culture, after all, is based to a large extent on the impression that Americans and Western Europeans have of the Eastern European peasantry as viewed through Dracula and similar fiction. Now, the mythology and folklore of such peasants is rooted in the original tradition that Ail refers to. That means that the superstitions that we're familiar with via fiction and which we're awarding by proxy to the Barovians are ones designed to confront a world in which vampires and werewolves are both very similar: marauding supernatural predators that stalk by night, driven by a mindless, animalistic urge to prey on humans.

Strahd, on the other hand, is based on the literary Count Dracula himself, as developed in the ensuing decades. Therefore his actions will not be governed by these kind of motivations.

(Come to think of it, if I was Strahd, I would deliberately let some of these revenant-vampires run around loose on occasion, just to reinforce in the minds of the population that vampires are these nasty critters half a step up from a Strahd zombie on the undead food chain and certainly nothing like the urbane, masterly Count. Heck, Strahd zombies would actually do nicely; give them a little cosmetic dentistry and order them to bite necks in battle and hey, presto, instant fake vampires.)

Another point to consider is that the Barovians simply don't have access to the kind of research materials that we have. That's why the Van Richtens of the world can be so effective; they essentially have access, through their own studies, to the kind of information that we as RPG players have about the creatures in our game-world. Certainly, one ought to be able to distinguish between a werewolf and a vampire under controlled circumstances (given that you can even establish controlled circumstances), but what about a wraith and a spectre, where the functional difference in 2Ed was the amount of the energy level drain and how hard they were to turn/dispel. What separates a ghoul from a ghast except for the smell? Then factor in all of Ravenloft's variant undead, including the ones Strahd himself has designed, and you end up with a mishmash that you'd have to be a trained archivist to sort out.

(Seriously. Sit down for a second and catalog all the various kinds of undead that roam Ravenloft, with a short dossier on powers, abilities, weaknesses, and methods of recognition. Can you do it without regularly consulting the various publications and reference materials? Now imagine how a largely illiterate and uneducated population would sort this out, including the possible confusion with natural phenomena--responsible for many of the real-world vampire superstitions--and pass it along via an oral history of folklore.)

So ultimately, no, I'm not surprised at all that Barovians would have gaping holes or inaccuracies in their folklore.

[Dion of the Fraternity]

I went all World-of-Darkness-y when it came to the vampire-werecreature confusion in Barovia. A few vampires in my campaign have Gangrel-esque traits, while werewolves have a strong connection to whatever stands as Barovia's hisil.

[Ail]

Also, remember the very first editions of D&D and look up werewolf. What kind of monster is it? An Undead, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't have the stuff here to look it up, but I do think you are indeed mistaken.

Hi again,

I tried to look up the modules where I thought I had seen this and I couldn't find any evidence of what I said. And yet, I remember reading some confusion of the kind somewhere. Perhaps it was some other game, computer or RPG, and probably old.
It might not help that Tolkien's werewolves are not very much the traditional thing. He even had a name for them, but I don't remember. Gorth something, perhaps?

Alex

[NeoTiamat]

Just as a side note, it's not just werewolves and vampires that can get confused. The other evils of Ravenloft can get in on the act for general havoc.

Some Ancient Dead can control animals, particularly predators such as wolves, much like vampires and some werewolves.

Madmen trying to create Flesh Golems dig up graves at night, while necromancers (including necromancer-undead like Strahd) do the same.

Ghosts and Vampires alike drain energy or life force, so the differences between someone energy drained by a ghost and bled by a vampire might not be immediately apparent.

And so on, and so on....

Can someone who's careful and has good knowledge tell what the difference is? Certainly, if they examine the tracks or leavings carefully. Are most peasants going to do that? Not on your life. And for obvious reasons, first-hand accounts are very rare.

[The Giamarga]

Tolkien's werewolves?

[Ail]

Tolkien's werewolves?

Indeed. They are briefly referenced in Silmarillion and there is a fight between a werewolf and Beren and Lúthien who have a hound who defeats the werewolf.
I've read the Silmarillion several times, but they were many years ago, so my memory is already very hazy about that part of the plot. Still, I remembered enough to google search and I found the name I wanted above: Gaurhoth, as in 'Tol in Gaurhoth', the Isle of Werewolves.

Check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tol-in-Gaurhoth

One thing I am reasonably confident of is that I know my Tolkien a lot better than my D&D... there's a lot less to learn, too

Alex