Dragons who go "Blaaaaaah!"

[Spiteful Crow]

Was reading about the Silver Dragon Vampire in Age of Worms. Apparently, you just have to scatter its hoard to destroy it permanently.

Still doesn't offer anything to scare it off, though.

[Archedius]

Regardless of who it was- yes I was mistaken of who was mulling; doesn't matter- point still stands. To me it makes sense that such a powerful entity could very well be willful enough and spiteful enough to come back if it is disposed of in a disrespectful way. To me as a DM, if my players tried destroying a vampire in a disrespectful way i.e. in a extreme case abusing the body etc. it makes sense that its spirit could be insensed enough to seek vengeance.
You seem opposed to the idea of that Crow- that's fine but watch your tone. It is a perfectly logical progression from a coporeal to incoporeal state. Liches do this, albeit temporarily, if physically overcome. I don't see why there couldn't be a chance of an intellegent coporeal UD being able to do this (once at most) based on the circumstances of its destruction.
As far as staking goes- would it be possible to burn a path to the dragons heart with holy water?- might be a way to actually stake the damn thing.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

It seems to me that the Powers check rules already provide a basis for smacking PCs who are grossly disrespectful of dead bodies, whether of enemies, strangers, or friends. And while there's no in-character reason you can't say that vampires return as crimson mists (or whatever) IYC, I agree with Spiteful Crow that if you just arbitrarily bring back an already-hyperpowerful monster for another adventure, without any in-character foreshadowing (or OOC warning to your players), it devalues the PCs' original victory over the creature and could foster an adversarial relationship with your gaming group. Thus, there are metagame reasons why it's usually best to let slain monsters -- especially one that the party's worked that hard to put down -- stay that way.

BTW, I love the idea of using holy water to burn through a vampiric dragon's hide to access its heart. That's exactly the kind of creativity and resourcefulness that a bizarre quandry like "How do we stake this humungous critter?" calls for, that makes it a logistical challenge for the players rather than just a question of finding a stake ten feet long.

[Spiteful Crow]

You seem opposed to the idea of that Crow- that's fine but watch your tone.

I'm sorry.

As far as staking goes- would it be possible to burn a path to the dragons heart with holy water?- might be a way to actually stake the damn thing.

Ooooh, I like that idea.

Staking leaves a kinda shriveled up corpse, doesn't it? If you reduced a vamp dragon to 0, trailed it back to its lair and staked it, it'd probably be a hassle to try and push it out of the way to get at its hoard.

What would make a good allergen? The only thing I can think of associated with dragon are knights in shining armor and treasure. I kinda had the idea of using a cinnamon stick to fend off vampiric red dragons, since cinnamon is "spicy", thus associated with fire.

[Isabella]

What would make a good allergen? The only thing I can think of associated with dragon are knights in shining armor and treasure. I kinda had the idea of using a cinnamon stick to fend off vampiric red dragons, since cinnamon is "spicy", thus associated with fire.

But if cinnamon is associated with fire, wouldn't a fire breathing dragon like it better? Wouldn't, say, a sprig of mint be a better allergen?

Maybe you could use religious items, like holy chalices and the like. It's like treasure, but the dragon can't touch them. Might give them pause for a bit.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

Maybe I'm alone in loving the idea of Crimson Mists as dead vampires. I used the Crimson Mist of Baron Metus extensively in my campaign. I wouldn't say it happens to every vampire, mind you, but to bring back a great villain for a final encore? awesome.

As for the vampiric dragons, another question: How the heck did the dragon get that way? It would have to either be voluntary, or a very young dragon attacked by a very powerful vampire, no?

[Spiteful Crow]

But if cinnamon is associated with fire, wouldn't a fire breathing dragon like it better? Wouldn't, say, a sprig of mint be a better allergen?

Halflings are fond of their "pipe-weed", but smoke from a pipe is enough to fend off a halfling vampire. Same thing with elf vampires and flower petals.

[Isabella]

Halflings are fond of their "pipe-weed", but smoke from a pipe is enough to fend off a halfling vampire. Same thing with elf vampires and flower petals.

True, but I've always believed that the logic behind that was that those items represented things they loved about their mortal life but were now denied to them - the flower petals represented an elf's love of nature, which reminded it that it was now an unnatural thing that could never touch its beloved plants without killing them (elven vampires had some sort of wilting touch ability). Likewise, the pipeweed reminded a halfling of the simple life and friends that it had lost forever.

However, a vampire dragon is still one great big furnace, so the concept behind the allergens doesn't really carry over. Unfortunately, dragons don't really have a set mentality other than their lust for treasure. Good dragons would be easier to repel, but I can't think of anything good for evil dragons. What has it lost?

[Spiteful Crow]

However, a vampire dragon is still one great big furnace, so the concept behind the allergens doesn't really carry over. Unfortunately, dragons don't really have a set mentality other than their lust for treasure. Good dragons would be easier to repel, but I can't think of anything good for evil dragons. What has it lost?

... other than the ability to release hundreds of half-dragons into the world every year?

[Isabella]

... other than the ability to release hundreds of half-dragons into the world every year?

Don't be silly, that's what the dhampir template is for.

[Spiteful Crow]

* tries to imagine putting both the half-dragon AND half-vampire template on the same monster *

[vipera aspis]

Going back to the whole armor thing of staking a dragon or a whale, wouldn't the whales skin/blubber be the same as a dragons skin/scales; natural armor? And flesh/skin of the dead is even tougher(for a time naturaly).

One could say that a stake to the heart is like a coup de grace. The only diffrence is that you need to actually get past the natural armor as opposed to just spending a full-found action. This means an attack roll with the target AC being 10 + natural armor + misc. Or the Vampire/Dragon wakes up.

On that note i would/will personaly bump up all natual armor of the dead would do not have it and on those would had it in life. Depending of course on the remains.

[Archedius]

Guess we just had a miscommunication- I agree that there's no pint in being arbitrary with players; there must always be a good reason for everything.
I'm not seeing a vampiric dragon actually drinking blood- least not for sustenance. Just doesn't seem practical. If you go with the idea that blood is life then why not have the vampdrag drink in life itself? As far as an allergen well this may be a case where it should be on an individual basis.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I recall a novel in which a dragon told someone why its kind found gold so enthralling. At least in that novel, it was because the sound that a golden object creates when it's struck -- coins clinking, bells ringing, etc -- was aesthetically pleasing to the dragon, having harmonics and tones the human ear wasn't nearly sensitive enough to detect, let alone appreciate.

Granted, that was just one author's explanation. But if you opt to go that way IYC, perhaps the sound of gold could become painful to the vampiric dragon. This would force it to maintain a permanent Slience effect over the hoard on which it rests by day ... and give it a hidden, ulterior motive to extort every last trace of gold from the living beings around it, so they won't have any to use against it if they learn of its weakness. It might even be especially vulnerable to sonic attacks, if the casters who create them use gold as an extra material component in their sonic spells.

[Spiteful Crow]

What's the reasoning behind normal vampires and garlic, anyway? Is it just based on a random real-life superstition about vampires?