Recommendations of non-WoTC books for RL needed

[Archedius]

Are there any non- WoTC books you've found useful for Ravenloft games? I'm not familiar with the other companies that make DnD supplements nor which ones have a good quality track record and would appreciate your recommendations greatly. Thanks in advance! (BTW I DM RL mostly so supplements useful in that regard would be excellent)

[Lost Heretic]

Midnight. It's probably the best, grittiest d20 setting out there. In layman's terms it's Lord of the Rings if Sauron won.

EDIT: Not that you need a new campaign setting, but it'll give you some great ideas. Maybe even just looking at some of the message boards for it could spawn some inspiration.

[Spiteful Crow]

All the White Wolf Ravenloft books.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I found Traps & Treachery I & II to be very useful for designing "Dungeon" crawls. (i.e. abandoned monastery, castle, and haunted manor crawls.)

[Mortepierre]

Darkness and Dread from Fantasy Flight Games. You could swear it was written with RL in mind.

Fear/Horror/Madness system which, dare I say, works better than the one in RL.

Alternate base classes weaker than their traditional counterparts (for those DM who think the PHB classes are too "strong" for RL)

Great rules about elder chtonic creatures and their servants

Description of a grim setting (the end of the world is near / every hero worth his salt has fled to other dimensions / only the "dregs" are left to fight it out)

The Where Madness Dwell free module (google it). Creepy module taking place in an asylum. Perfect for the northwestern Core.

The Red Order module (not free but cheap), for those who love old monasteries and fiendish plot. I reworked it IMC to make it a Guardian base.

[WolfKook]

I second the recommendation about Fantasy Flight's Midnight. It's a great setting, and most of the background information can give many ideas. Being a campaing setting on its own, however, a lot of info simply can't be extrapolated to ravenloft.

I also use the Medieval Player's Manual, from Green Ronin, a lot. I contains interesting information on astrology, folk charms and feats for innocent characters (Well, they are not made for innocent characters, just for characters who have committed no sins). On the other hand, the details on the catholic church or historical england may not apply to RL.

(Thinking twice, I guess I always manage to find something in almost any book that falls into my hands -from Green Ronin's Blue Rose to Fantasy Flight's Dragonstar, including Valar's Book of Erotic Fantasy and the Kingdoms of Kalamar -that I can use in Ravenloft ).

[Archedius]

Thnx- I'll look at all of these. I find that I manage to pull out material from non-Gothic books and actually find a use for it IMC. A great example was the Tsochari from Lords of Madness- haven't used one yet... but I will. The PC's will have a shock when they find out the man they've been befriending isn't a man, or even human. (I reckon tsocharii must have similar thought patterns as humans to emulate them as well as they can thus- emotions; I gave them a full range of emotions IMC and thus capable of friendship or at least caring)
I dunno- I like making monsters and ideas that seem anathema to RL work in its atmosphere. My PC's are travelling with a female young adult red dragon (disguised of course) they freed from an island of terror after redeeming its DL. They don't know Alystryx is a dragon, and she's smart enough to keep it that way. (The DL had murdered her mate and killed her 1st and only clutch of eggs when she was away, then wounded her when she returned- making her barren to boot; all to garner additional political power and clout) Doesn't sound like it will work but it has and will continue to. She can't reveal her true form in the Core becuase she would attract attention.
I also removed the typical alignments from dragons, as she is now Alystryx is prone to emotional breakdowns, is apathetic towards gathering a hoard and is generally trying to find a purpose for her life as all she has loved is gone. She loves children greatly regardless of race and flies into a rage when she sees them mistreated. She's even starting to view the PC's as surrogate children. Again, sounds wierd and awkward but it works IMC.

As far as the WW RL books- I have almost all of them; I thought it'd be a given that I would at least have some, not that I mean that to be offensive. Anyways if you read all of this- Thnx for the suggestions

edit- just looked at the Midnight stuff: wow; I may buy that, I could find some way of making it all work in RL as its own domain or at least rip out a chunk of the ideas.

[LordGodefroi]

Darkness and Dread from Fantasy Flight Games. You could swear it was written with RL in mind.

In addition to Darkness and Dread, I'd add Relics & Rituals and Relics & Rituals II: Lost Lore from Sword & Sorcery Studios

Of Darkness and Dread, I think the best parts are:

A 'Black Magic' system that describes the negative effects (temp CON damage, die roll penalties, and Madness points) of using spells on the Black Magic spell list the DM creates. A sample spell list is included in the book. In general, all the 'big damage' spells (Fireball, for example) are relegated to the Black Magic category as are spells that involve the dead or extra-planar beings.

Considering that horror involves mystery and investigation, there's an innovative new system regarding the Knowledge skill which allows characters broader coverage in their knowledge base. (Yet it isn't as broad as Bardic Knowledge.) It's very interesting and workable but I don't use it as I want to keep new rules to the minimum because I've got players that are newbies to the RL campaign setting.

There's a very innovative system regarding magic books, libraries, and research that could be used in any D&D game. This is worth the price of the book by itself. I definitely use this one in my game.

[Le Noir Faineant]

For me, it's Iron Kingdoms or Thieves' World, if you stick to d20, or Ars Magica and Warhammer if you don't mind checking other systems.

If you're indeed looking for rule additions, I think you'll be able to make the most out of the Thieves World books.

[WolfKook]

For me, it's Iron Kingdoms or Thieves' World, if you stick to d20, or Ars Magica and Warhammer if you don't mind checking other systems.
If you're indeed looking for rule additions, I think you'll be able to make the most out of the Thieves World books.

Could you expand a little, please, Rafael? I had thought Iron Kingdoms was like a steampunk campaign setting... Isn't it? And what is Thieves' World about?

[Le Noir Faineant]

Iron Kingdoms

Thieves World

Both settings are essentially Dark Fantasy, with Iron Kingdoms bearing a resemblance to Warhammer, and Thieves World begin like a darker version of Lankhmar. I personally would recommend Thieves World, because it's low fantasy, and because the books can be bought as a bundle now, for a high, but relatively fair price. (4 books for about 100 $.)

In general, I think just everything can be used as a source for RL - the secret, at least for me, is the mood, not the theme. My personal concept is that horror is always tied to simplicity, and the more rules one implements in a game, the more complicated it gets.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Tome of Horrors by Necromancer Games/White Wolf. Conversions of hundreds of 1st and 2nd edition monsters that still have not been updated to 3.X edition. More than a few are applicable for Ravenloft

[Archedius]

A lot of great suggestions so far. Keep em coming!

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

The adventures from the Escapism Foundry are good, as is the NPC book they've got.

Of course, I might be bias as the company's ran by some friends and they're getting me to write stuff for them...

[Dion of the Fraternity]