The son of the retcon idea - newbie guide content?

[Joël of the FoS]

If there was to be a guide for newbies in Ravenloft, what kind of content would you see in it? What would think should be addressed in it?

Joël

[NeoTiamat]

I actually like this idea a great deal. Umm, I think that, among other things, the following should probably be present:

A basic explanation of who the basic Domain-Darklord system. An explanation of what the Dark Powers are (or rather, what they do). Perhaps an explanation of powers checks and fear, horror, madness saves, though I'm not sure I'd unload all the mechanics on to newbies. Possibly a word on Vistani.

Some basic settings (I.e. Simple descriptions of say, Mordent, Barovia, one or two other domains) complete with adventure ideas.

A guide to introducing Ravenloft into an ongoing campaign (Basically, how to do a weekend in Hell that will also wet the PC's appetites for more Ravenloft. Avoid the idea of Goal=Leave Ravenloft.)

A guide to starting a campaign from scratch in Ravenloft. This'd tie into the basic settings. Basically, simple notes on how to start a campaign, what are the differences between this and normal campaigns, how to make it memorable, etc.

A guide to running a gothic style campaign (i.e. RLDMG lite).

Some sample adventures to sink one's teeth into. Either written from scratch or 3e updates of good adventures.

[Ail]

Maybe we should start by defining the aims of this book. Is it simply a guide for new players, to let them know the setting and entice them to it?
Is it a revival of a simpler playing style, a kind of Ravenloft light? Is it a return to innocence for the veterans that might be suitable to new players?

Anyhow, I'll give you what would be my preferences and what I felt lacking when I first read Domains of Dread.

I think rules mechanics should be out because of copyright infringement. I don't think we may be able to republish powers checks, horror saves and so on because that has been published. But we should give an idea of who the major characters are. For instance, I felt that DoD should have brought a description of Van Richten's life, why he was so integral to the setting, and more on the Vistani, because there were references to them in the timeline that showed they were important.

A RL Light should have a description of some domains' geography. Perhaps you don't even need to mention domains and darklords at all, only the kind of landscape that the game stresses (and at this level, this should probably be european woods and villages therein, possibly with widely scattered civilization focuses like cities). Leaving DLs out, at least as such, favours two things: first, the plausibility that the populaces are unaware of their special status and allow them to go on and on and on without asking questions. Secondly, the realization of campaigns not focused on them that can meet success especially because they don't have an impossible foe as target. also weather could be included here.

Then, there should be an outline of the kind of stories that should or could be made while being appropriate for newbies. Stories that could develop in several adventures to make them a mini-campaign.

A section on rewards for these heroes. If the PCs are not recognized by someone, if they don't have incentive to excel and be more than farmers, players won't like the game.

Also, what kind of characters are the heroes in this world. Perhaps the emergence of heroes from the simple folk should be stressed here, like no one is an adventurer professionally because he fancies it. That's too dangerous. But one may become so out of necessity, and this should give some ideas towards that.

Another would be the common beliefs of the simple folks where the heroes come from. This could include deliberate wrong information, to represent the fallibility of myth. this should also include a roster of common creatures believed to be true or present enough to scare the common folk.

In parallel with the myths, a description of famous people in the lands, both for good or bad, that might serve as inspiration for would-be heroes or focus of their enmity. this should include Van Richten, the Vistani, Weathermay (or the Twins, depending on the time set) at the very least. Perhaps just a small description of the church of Ezra as the most influential throughout the land, but merely to justfiy the existence of cleric characters.

Perhaps an idea of how the communities are organized. If there are farms, who's the ruling authority (perhaps a single burgomaster) kind of economy or economic status (poor mostly), knowledge of geography of other lands around, bare notions of politics, or indication that the common person would know nothing of such matters.

Why it would be worthwhile to be a hero in this land. It's not exactly the rewards, but more the moral calling for it. Is the land desperate and in need of heroes? Why? Are the dangers accessible enough to be dealt with?

This would leave most of the world mysterious and unknown enough to be compelling for new players, I hope.

P.S.: As a sidenote, years ago, there was I think in the Lonesome Road site an online book on Barovia called The Enlightenment I, I think. Anyone read it? I was left with the impression it was to be a player's guide to Barovia. Could it be used as inspiration?

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I think that the RCS really did a pretty good job of explaining the place to new players. What might be needed is an intro to the place for new DMs. after all, if the DM decides to go to RL, he usually takes 2-6 players with him. (kicking and screaming, if need be. ) Again, the RLDMG does do this well, but there's always more advice one could give, along the lines of what's been said above.

I wouldn't mind seeing brief summaries of who each darklord is, what their main goals are, and what their current plans are, incorporating stuff from the Gaz's like the becoming plague and Hazlik's impending ritual. Along with maybe some examples of how to use those plans for an adventure without provoking direct conflict with the DL.

One other thing I would do is dispense with the sly hints about things and come right and and summarize some of the shadowy stuff for new DMs like:
The Gentleman Caller is an incubus, trapped in RL, and pursued by the Ghaele Eladrin Isolde, mistress of the Carnival. He appears in the background of several important events, usually leaving after setting a plan in motion. His goals are left mysterious for the DM to adjust as needed, but his past exploits have included: fathering at least 5 half-fiendish children inlcuding Mallocchio, Vigo Drakov, The Beast of the Hills, and possibly Chezna and the Jongleur...

etc, etc. Similar summaries could be given for the other metaplot stuff. Van Richten and his friends, Azalin's schemes, S, The Grand Conjunction, Grim Harvest, and ToUD.

Put everything on the table for the purposes of new DMs. Make sure they know that all this metaplot stuff is free to be used or discarded as they see fit. Give them hints and plot hooks on how to incorporate this background stuff into a real adventure. Tell them which books establish what plot points. And don't make them have to dig through one-line references and ask questions on a message board to get the full answer. (As much as we may love doing that, it's got to be daunting for a newbie DM.)

[Jester of the FoS]

One idea would be to incorporate Taint and Sanity from the System Reference Document:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm

[eidolon]

For simplicity, base the whole bocklet around a single domain. Barovia I'd say. Barovia enthails all that is essential and classy about Ravenloft campaigns. Of course, mention that there are many other lands, but to start, Barovia will do by far.
Mention the classic elements of Ravenloft: Typical monsters, the mists, Vistani and the lord of the land. Forget about the Dark powers for now. Stradh should be the worst there is and serve as background. To explore Ravenloft does not mean to go for the big guys first day.
Keep the rules to a minimum. Rules rarely inspire much. Mantion fear and horror saves.
A short guide on how to play a gothic game, the classic do's and don't's of such a game.
Add a large couple of adventure hooks for big and small campaigns (all for Barovia, but for v1rst to 6th level).

KISS (keep it stupid and simple). A bit liek the intro-bocklets for Vampire 3ed. and Mage, they where great to read, quick and inspireing. And since players will have the Players guide they'll be all set to start a nice little game in Ravenloft.

10 Pages maximum.

Oh yes, that could inspire people. All you need is to inspire. If they like the little bit, they'll ask for more. Of they don't like it, never mind trying for big stuff.

[Jonathan Winters]

(Here I go posting again when I got up at 4AM. I hope I will make sense.)

I really don't want to come off as negative, but a lot of what I read as suggestions for a PC intro to RL has seen print already. I think there might be some legal problems to this.

Also, focusing on one domain to begin with really sounds like what the GAZs have done.

One thing I was thinking about was maybe splitting the RL forum: A DM only forum and a Player forum. It could possibly bring in players to the game and keep them guessing about the setting. (Like Monte Cook did for Ptolus on his site. And yes, I keep mentionning Monte Cook just to annoy Joël! )

Just me trying to be constructive...

But do keep those ideas coming!

Patrick

[CorvusCornix]

Eidolon is right, we need something short to inspire new DMs, and to give them directions where to look if they hear something they would like to include in their campaign. However, I wouldn't restrict the document to Barovia, I'd rather use Gonzorons approach: a brief introduction to the most important issues. To pick up Gonzorons GC example: add references where a new DM can read more of the GC and his exploits, like Mallocchio (Adventure "the evil eye").

To propose a basic structure:
Introduction: what is RL, Gothic,...

Chapter 1, The world of RL: brief description of each domain at least of the Core, no more than 5 sentences each. Example: Mordent: a gloomy domain fashioned after 16. century england, filled with haunted foggy moors, windsweapt heaths and dark, long abandoned houses. This is a land where stories of dark curses and ghosts returning from their graves to haunt the living come true (read Gaz 3 for more information)

Chapter 2, important characters: same for Team VR, the most important darklords (I think describing ALL darklords is just too much, some are way too unimportant, but I find the concept of Darklords very fascinating, to describing a few of them is a must for me), Gentleman Caller,the Vistani...

Chapter 3, major events: TouD, Grand Conjunction, Requiem,...

Chapter 4: Building a RL campaign, how to inspire Fear, dos and don'ts

All in all, in my opinion this document should give a new DM a wide overview, so he can decide for himself which part of Ravenloft interests him most and which parts he would want to read more about. In short, lead him through the menacing amount of sources available and hand him the few pages that he really needs to read.

[Ail]

I have spoken my piece already, but since others have written, I'd like to comment on their ideas.

I am for a short text. Hard texts will be hard to read and very unmotivating.

I still think we should not describe darklords. At most, we should describe land rulers without implying they are anything else than that. That will keep the players surprised when they do learn about Darklords.

I am for few lands. Only the most important and characteristic in the centre Core. When the DM told the players "ah, but there is more" then it would be a welcome expansion surprise for them. Also, include here Carnival and a description of Vistani. This said, there's not much point in giving a description of lands like Nova Vaasa, Tepest, Keening, Sithicus, Hazlan or the Islands of Terror. But that, of course, is just my opinion.

I have mixed feelings towards an index of books where to read more. If this were a commercial pay-for product, I'd be irritated by that kind of comment, and feel cheated for more information not being there (I'm saying this cause I felt a bit of that when I bought DoD. Then I read more and knew better...). A newbie does not have conscience of how much is left to say, so he'll always feel that more could have been said. On the other hand, it's obvious that a 20pg book (for example) can not condense all that has been written and having a catalogue of information is a handy thing. Perhaps one should be given for the Kargatane Catalogue.

Alex

[CorvusCornix]

Well, for me the question boils down to: do we want to give the new DM a guide to the existing books, or a guide to running a RL campaign without any of the books?

I can fully understand your problems with those cross-references Ail, and I felt quite similarly when I started. DoD forced you to buy loads of books to understand what was going on. But, what I believe would really help a new DM would be a guide to finding out which books you REALLY need for the type of campaign you want. You want a werewolf campaign in an india-based land? Get Gaz 1 and VRGtWerebeasts and forget about everything else. The Guide I have in mind gives the DM an idea of what possibilities RL has to offer.

Bear in mind that - at least for me - all the RL books are nothing more - and nothing less - than a fountain of ideas for the DM. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to run a RL campaign without the books, simply because you have so much more work to do, working out every detail of the world yourself.

About the Darklords: I thought of the Guide as DM material. Sure, in a players guide I wouldn't mention them either.

[Joël of the FoS]

Well, for me the question boils down to: do we want to give the new DM a guide to the existing books

I see it like that, indeed, as we can't Xerox what's already published. But telling new DMs the basics of RL, and which book/netbook to get more information on each is a good idea.

Plus: hints and advices for WiHell, and for a longuer RL campaign.

As someone said, a short document, made to inspire people to try it.

Joël