Souragne project

[TwiceBorn]

About the talking animals from the Wildlands didn't the Souragne novel also feature some of those? Without a social classes but still talking animals at least.

The "talking animals" weren't animals, but minor Voodan nature-spirits in corporeal forms. Picture Brer Rabbit of African-American folklore dressed up in a Victorian waistcoat rather than overalls, and you're pretty close.

Just one of the many reasons why I didn't like "Dance of the Dead." I didn't like Christie Golden's depiction of the loas... they looked like they would fit better in Alice in Wonderland than in a gothic setting. I really hope we don't include them (or much of anything else from that book) into the gaz.

As far as "La Demoiselle du Musarde" is concerned... as someone who speaks French as a first language, I always thought it should be "La Demoiselle de la Musarde" (river being a feminine word in French). Anyone have plausible explanations for why that might not be the case? "Du Musarde" just sounds so wrong to my ears.

[Joël of the FoS]

As far as "La Demoiselle du Musarde" is concerned... as someone who speaks French as a first language, I always thought it should be "La Demoiselle de la Musarde" (river being a feminine word in French). Anyone have plausible explanations for why that might not be the case? "Du Musarde" just sounds so wrong to my ears.

Well here French was used to flavor the book to English-born people, which makes the bulk of D&D buyers (and writers). It is often used without real knowledge of the language.

And I hear it's the same for other languages used in Ravenloft.

I doesn't worry me, I think it's funny. In my games, I do correct some of these, others I keep to make it sounding strange to my french players.

Joël

[The Giamarga]

Here are the references to Souragne from the BoS series:

Book of Sorrows

Vistani Chess

Anton Misroi is said to have a drotche set made of wood carved from a bloodwood, a type of tree found only in the swamps of Souragne, and a fire-blackened oak that formerly housed a dryad.

Simon LaFleur
A JuJu Zombie NPC created by Chicken Bone. Lots of background info !!!


The Boccoru
-a chracter kit/specialty priest class/Druid variant
-Souragnean loa are nature spirits of the swamp
-Misroi is loa of death / Lord of the Dead,
-the Maiden of the Swamp is loa of Life (a hamadryad with spellcasting as 9th lvl boccoru/9th lvl mage)
-the loa of foxes, Bushytail is found in Richemulot!?!

Children of the Bayou
New Horrors for Souragne: Werepossum, Nightcrawler, Uncle Skeleton, Weeping Willow

Children of the Light
Ravenloft PC rules has an entry for Souragne:

Souragne
Cultural level: Chivalric.
Races: Human.
Classes: Any. Priests must be shamans (pages 34 to 38 Spells & Magic), wizards must be specialist necromancers.
Kits: Animal master, beggar, mariner, merchant, mystic, pirate, smuggler, thug.
Characteristics: All but upper class characters (10%) receive half normal starting money.

The Gothic Earth guide to Voudou
by Bil Boozer pg.173 of the BoSor. Although it's not based on Souragne as such. much of the article is quite useful due to the Loa worship of Souragne and the relevant real world parallels, not to mention saving a lot of time researching the topic of the Voudou from the ground floor up for ideas.



Book of Sacrifices

Myths of the Mists

Souragne, Nova Vaasa, Hazlan (Eric Daniel)
In the swamps of Souragne, the walking dead are known to lurk within the darkness of the swamps, but sometimes ghosts are said to walk the streets of Port d’Elhour. Some merchants of Souragne have created little clay fetishes, called watchmen, to sell to people. These watchmen supposedly have to ability to ward off spirits when carried. The watchmen are little clay figurines, roughly man-shaped, usually in plain fired clay but sometimes glazed in bright colors. Most of these watchmen have no power, but occasionally there have been reports of a ghost being driven away from someone with a watchman. Whether this has to do with the watchman or something else is unknown.
The fetishes have spread to some of the other domains, notably Nova Vaasa and Hazlan, where they are mostly considered to be curiosities and purchased as a decoration.

The Zanango Society
A secret society worshiping Anton Misroi. Lots of background info !!!


Book of Souls

Saga of the Mists
has an entry for Souragne:

Souragne
Heroes: Souragnien shamans use the Primary Spheres of the Healer, the Druid, and the Bishop, with the Secondary Spheres of the Monk and the Missionary. Heroes with a Wealth score of 6 or less find that their final score is reduced 1 point due to the strong social divisions and widespread poverty of this swampy isle.

Lord: Anton Misroi
Nature: Sadistic and Selfish
Demeanor: Dramatic
Reputation: Adventurer (6 Quests)
Social Status: Aristocracy (8)
Ph: 7B Co: 9B In: 8C Es: 6C
Damage: +8 Defense: 0
Special Notes: Anton can transfer himself between plants at will and regenerate himself by merging with the swamp. He can cause death or disease at will, speak with the dead, animate as many dead as he can find corpses (and the swamp is littered with corpses), and duplicate any necromantic effect with the dance of the dead, which takes him only one minute to peform.

Voodan Zombie
not undead. Includes details on the creation.

Book of Shadows

The Order of Twilight

Rumors have it that other cells exist in the Islands of Terror, most likely in domains such as G’Henna, Souragne and Vorostokov.

[Stygian Inquirer]

There is also Bouki the loa of Rabbits from Sourange.

[The Giamarga]

About the talking animals from the Wildlands didn't the Souragne novel also feature some of those? Without a social classes but still talking animals at least.

The "talking animals" weren't animals, but minor Voodan nature-spirits in corporeal forms. Picture Brer Rabbit of African-American folklore dressed up in a Victorian waistcoat rather than overalls, and you're pretty close.

Just one of the many reasons why I didn't like "Dance of the Dead." I didn't like Christie Golden's depiction of the loas... they looked like they would fit better in Alice in Wonderland than in a gothic setting. I really hope we don't include them (or much of anything else from that book) into the gaz.

The Boccoru Kit from Book of Sorrows does mention those Loa. pecifically that Anton Misroi is the loa Lord of the Dead, The Maiden of the Swamp is the loa of life. I like the idea tha the loa are real in the flesh albeit fantastic creatures. It seems to gel with D&D fantasy and gives Souragnean Voodoun it's own twist. Now that doesn't mean that they should be talking animals from Alice in Wonderland a la the the loa of foxes: Bushytails. (also from the boccoru article) Why is there a loa of foxes in the first place? Or of rabbits?Better call them loa of cleverness and cowardice, which can take those forms somehow. These loa are something akin to Saints and the spellcasting is granted by God/the gods/the DPs/whatever.


What does DT&DL say about the loa? Which ones does it have?

As far as "La Demoiselle du Musarde" is concerned... as someone who speaks French as a first language, I always thought it should be "La Demoiselle de la Musarde" (river being a feminine word in French). Anyone have plausible explanations for why that might not be the case? "Du Musarde" just sounds so wrong to my ears.

A minor error easily corrected. Don't even ask about the bastardized german terms...

[Don Fernando]

Voodoo Zombie!!!

So are those voodoo zombies still alive but drugged or do you mean real undead zombie-variants. Or are both possible... I would say the former as you can get real D&D zombies easily enough with spells by getting a few cleric or sorcerer or voodan levels.

Or should this poison/powder be at least semi-magical, so that not anybody can create it, only a Bocor ? Perhaps a new lower level spell should be involved in the creation of either the voodoo zombies or the powder itself.

Yeah, these Zombies must be slaves, aware that they were transformed and, unable to break this curse. Irreversible and terrible.

I would like to think these zombies are made via a complex ritual, that runs for months. A complete process. And the shaman/voodan can actually choose the level of slavery it can impose on the victim. The actual Zombie actually beeing the Highest possible rank of slavery.

This voodan ritual of course requires the injestion of some kind of potion, made of the plant native only to Souragne and other stuff.

What do you people think??

[The Giamarga]

I think updating the Voodan Zombie from Book of Souls is the way to go. I don't think the process has tobe irreversible or take a month-long ritual.

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

Just one of the many reasons why I didn't like "Dance of the Dead." I didn't like Christie Golden's depiction of the loas... they looked like they would fit better in Alice in Wonderland than in a gothic setting. I really hope we don't include them (or much of anything else from that book) into the gaz.

As far as "La Demoiselle du Musarde" is concerned... as someone who speaks French as a first language, I always thought it should be "La Demoiselle de la Musarde" (river being a feminine word in French). Anyone have plausible explanations for why that might not be the case? "Du Musarde" just sounds so wrong to my ears.

I also speak french as a 1st language and I agree with you - it should likely be "de la Musarde". However, here are some example of rivers ("fleuves") as masculine:

Le St-Laurent
Le Mississippi
Le Nile

etc...

SO, it depends, I suppose, on how we see the musarde: "rivère ou fleuve"? (I am sorry - I can't think of an equivalent word for "fleuve"...)

[brothersale]

Here are the references to Souragne from the BoS series:

Book of Sorrows

You missed, The Gothic Earth guide to Voudou by Bil Boozer pg.173 of the BoSor, although it's not based on Souragne as such. Much of the article is quite useful due to the Loa worship of Souragne and the relevant real world parallels, not to mention saving a lot of time researching the topic of the Voudou from the ground floor up for ideas.

[TwiceBorn]

Just one of the many reasons why I didn't like "Dance of the Dead." I didn't like Christie Golden's depiction of the loas... they looked like they would fit better in Alice in Wonderland than in a gothic setting. I really hope we don't include them (or much of anything else from that book) into the gaz.

As far as "La Demoiselle du Musarde" is concerned... as someone who speaks French as a first language, I always thought it should be "La Demoiselle de la Musarde" (river being a feminine word in French). Anyone have plausible explanations for why that might not be the case? "Du Musarde" just sounds so wrong to my ears.

I also speak french as a 1st language and I agree with you - it should likely be "de la Musarde". However, here are some example of rivers ("fleuves") as masculine:

Le St-Laurent
Le Mississippi
Le Nile

etc...

SO, it depends, I suppose, on how we see the musarde: "rivère ou fleuve"? (I am sorry - I can't think of an equivalent word for "fleuve"...)

I thought of the same examples as you did as exceptions to the rule (with the same rationale you alluded to -- in French, the St-Laurent, Mississippi and Nile qualify as "fleuves"). This is one of those distinctions that is lost in translation (the various French-English dictionaries I've consulted all list "river" as the only translation for "fleuve"). I guess that to my ears, "La Musarde" sounds better, perhaps because it reminds me of "La Meuse"... Anyway, thanks for your input, Joel and Barabarosa... I'll consider this case closed and not worthy of further debate (especially since the francophones seem to agree on this point)...

[TwiceBorn]

Voodoo Zombie!!!

So are those voodoo zombies still alive but drugged or do you mean real undead zombie-variants. Or are both possible... I would say the former as you can get real D&D zombies easily enough with spells by getting a few cleric or sorcerer or voodan levels.

Or should this poison/powder be at least semi-magical, so that not anybody can create it, only a Bocor ? Perhaps a new lower level spell should be involved in the creation of either the voodoo zombies or the powder itself.

Yeah, these Zombies must be slaves, aware that they were transformed and, unable to break this curse. Irreversible and terrible.

I would like to think these zombies are made via a complex ritual, that runs for months. A complete process. And the shaman/voodan can actually choose the level of slavery it can impose on the victim. The actual Zombie actually beeing the Highest possible rank of slavery.

This voodan ritual of course requires the injestion of some kind of potion, made of the plant native only to Souragne and other stuff.

What do you people think??

I like the idea of slaves becoming non-undead zombies via ingestion of a potion made from local plants and a ritual, but I think the ritual should take no more than a few days to complete... or perhaps the degree of servitude/mental enslavement should be tied to the length of the ritual? The zombified person might feel like they were buried alive, unable to communicate and able only to obey the commands of their master... a truly horrible fate! But I think that some counter-rituals might be able to reverse the process (I think the reversal process should be even more difficult than the creation process).

The fact that they aren't dead might make an interesting challenge for players, e.g., "is this zombie that's attacking us truly undead, or is it simply a poor peasant who is still living and under the control of some evil Boccor?"

Would these non-undead zombies be subject to turning? On the one hand, one would think not, because they aren't really undead. On the other hand, perhaps the "zombies" have come to think of themselves as undead, and therefore react strongly (i.e., can be turned) when facing a cleric with a holy symbol. This would be akin to a self-fulfilling prophecy, or the power of suggestion made real (just like some anthropological research indicates that exorcisms can successfully cure a "possessed" person because of the person's belief in spirit possession and in the power of the exorcism ritual -- not because spirit possession really has occurred, etc.).

[TwiceBorn]

The Boccoru Kit from Book of Sorrows does mention those Loa. pecifically that Anton Misroi is the loa Lord of the Dead, The Maiden of the Swamp is the loa of life. I like the idea tha the loa are real in the flesh albeit fantastic creatures. It seems to gel with D&D fantasy and gives Souragnean Voodoun it's own twist. Now that doesn't mean that they should be talking animals from Alice in Wonderland a la the the loa of foxes: Bushytails. (also from the boccoru article) Why is there a loa of foxes in the first place? Or of rabbits?Better call them loa of cleverness and cowardice, which can take those forms somehow. These loa are something akin to Saints and the spellcasting is granted by God/the gods/the DPs/whatever.


What does DT&DL say about the loa? Which ones does it have?

My knowledge of tropical swamp ecology is admittedly quite limited... can one even find rabbits and foxes in a bayou??? One way or another, a loa of cowardice and a loa of cleverness, I can accept... a loa of rabbits and a loa of foxes just don't seem right. I myself prefer that the loa remain spirits that can possess the bodies of mortals, and which have commonly accepted forms of symbolic representation, but which rarely (if ever) manifest themselves in physical bodies of their own.

Here is a list of the loa found in DT&DL:

. The Maiden of the Swamp
. The Lord of the Dead (NOT Anton Misroi)
. Brahmbei, the Oracle
. Kurkva, the Wailing One
. Lethede, the Lady of Roads
. Madris Orundi, the Dancer
. Ohuwaghnn, the Serpent King
. Ovun Borundir, the Warrior
. Sekhelo, the Queen in Gold
. Tonthomba, the Burning Man
. Ulwaddithri, the Consuming One

DT&DL states that there are thousands of loa in Souragne, "representing all manner of natural forces, locations and concepts." Those listed above are "a selection of the greatest loa of the Souragnien faith."

As an aside, Green Ronin's "Skull and Bones" sourcebook has a chapter on voodoo, which includes some "real life" loa.

I hope that helps...

[TwiceBorn]

In 2nd ed., I thought it was implied that Anton Misroi and the Lord of the Dead were one and the same. Now, DT&DL indicates that they are different beings. I think the relationship between the two should be explored in the DM's section of the gaz.

Also, which one of them has forbidden the casting of non-necromantic arcane magic in Souragne, and why? What happens if someone casts a non-necromantic spell... does either Misroi or the Lord of the Dead automatically know when a spell is cast (even if it is something harmless like comprehend languages)?

[The Giamarga]

Here are the references to Souragne from the BoS series:

Book of Sorrows

You missed, The Gothic Earth guide to Voudou by Bil Boozer pg.173 of the BoSor, although it's not based on Souragne as such. Much of the article is quite useful due to the Loa worship of Souragne and the relevant real world parallels, not to mention saving a lot of time researching the topic of the Voudou from the ground floor up for ideas.

Good find, thanks! I added it to the list above.

[The Giamarga]

I like the idea of slaves becoming non-undead zombies via ingestion of a potion made from local plants and a ritual, but I think the ritual should take no more than a few days to complete... or perhaps the degree of servitude/mental enslavement should be tied to the length of the ritual? The zombified person might feel like they were buried alive, unable to communicate and able only to obey the commands of their master... a truly horrible fate! But I think that some counter-rituals might be able to reverse the process (I think the reversal process should be even more difficult than the creation process).

The fact that they aren't dead might make an interesting challenge for players, e.g., "is this zombie that's attacking us truly undead, or is it simply a poor peasant who is still living and under the control of some evil Boccor?"

Would these non-undead zombies be subject to turning? On the one hand, one would think not, because they aren't really undead. On the other hand, perhaps the "zombies" have come to think of themselves as undead, and therefore react strongly (i.e., can be turned) when facing a cleric with a holy symbol. This would be akin to a self-fulfilling prophecy, or the power of suggestion made real (just like some anthropological research indicates that exorcisms can successfully cure a "possessed" person because of the person's belief in spirit possession and in the power of the exorcism ritual -- not because spirit possession really has occurred, etc.).

Read the Voodan Zombie article from BoSouls. It specifically mentions how killing Voodan Zombies constitutes murder (brutal or non-brutal depending on circumstance).

Those Voodan Zombies are not immune to poison or mind-affecting spells as they are not truly undead. OTOH they can be turned or controlled but with a penalty equal to the level of the Bocor who created them. They cannot be controlled by Zombie Lords (This should particularly vex Misroi!!!) and are not harmed by holy water.

They are created by ingested poison. which puts them in a comatose sleep for about a week. Then " the victim is mourned as dead and, after the appropriate time, buried in a grave outside of a cemetery. Eight days after the poison is administered, the Houngann returns to the gravesite and exhumes the victim, who has already awakened and who, as both a result of waking up buried alive and an effect of the Houngann’s poison, been drained of most of his or her Intelligence and Wisdom. The victim is now a Voodan zombie completely under the Houngann’s control. He or she will follow the Houngann’s simple commands except for obeying a command which the zombie recognizes as a threat to his or her life."