Hour of the Knife or Shadow of the Knife

[Drinnik Shoehorn]

I'm in a bind. My players have told me they like the investagative aspect of my campaign, so I'm thinking of running HotK or SotK*. But I don't know which one. I like them both equally, but SotK is already 3.5erised and I don't have to convert it, but HotK is an equally good adventure. What do people who've ran one or the other or both suggest?







*Just noticed that the Kargatane's last book has the same initials as their website, coincidence or sinister plot? YOU DECIDE!

[Episkopos]

Hour of the knife!!! For sure, amazing plotline and very good flow of the plot.
The part where the PC's find out they're dead... oh man, this brings back memories.
Shadow is very nice also but I would play it after I played the hour of the knife.

[Bloody Morgan]

The part where the PC's find out they're dead... oh man, this brings back memories.

Would you elaborate on that? Sounds like a fun twist.

[Episkopos]

Xxxxxxxxxx-- S P O I L E R --xxxxxxxxxxxxxxX

First off the adventure states that if for any reason any of the PC's stay alone even for the slightest of time the dooblegangers will assume a form of their friends and kill them when the least expect them.
Though this would require the classic rolls of whether the PC stands a chance or not, for the sake of the plot, we assume they are automatically killed (as in my situation where all the PC's but one stayed alone and got killed).
So after they are "killed" the doppleganger takes their place, and not in the player's knowledge, the character they are playing is actually a doppleganger
rather than their normal PC. That is if there is at least one surviving member still in the group.
Then fast forward on the story, Sodo using the dagger will resurect them allowing them to continue the mission.
Now the cool stuff about this (at least in my situation) was the looks on the players face when the one surviving paladin was attacked by all his friends and the rest of the players were still wondering what the hell happened. The paladin failed a madness check seeing his best friends turning into monsters that triggered chain reactions that led him being a black guard not to be discussed here
But the point where I said "you are all dead, you were killed by doplegangers and now they have taken your place" was really nice.
They still hate me for that, even if they got their characters the next session

[Jester of the FoS]

It works but ONLY if the party is mature enough to accept a total-party death off-camera for the sake of a story.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

It occurs to me that HotK would be an excellent module to use "cut scenes" with. Supposing every once in a while, you as DM cut away from the PCs, and described a short scene of a doppleganger reporting to Sodo ("Another target has been replaced, elder one!" "Good, good, the plan is progressing as required....")? It'd drive them up the wall -- especially if you lead them to think it's the NPCs they're having to work with and (in theory) trust, who are being supplanted -- and it'd make the Big Reveal that it's really THEM whom the 'gangers have been replacing all the more dramatic, due to the buildup of suspense! Plus, the players couldn't claim afterwards that you'd given them no warning....

[Episkopos]

Actually I totally disagree with cutscenes. They take away the best element of Ravenloft. Getting the unexpected in your face the very worst time when you have no chance to react with coolness. They prepare the PC's of what to come and that is never a good idea.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I use Cut Scenes primarily to show the aftershocks of PC actions. It gives them something to be proud of that even if they didn't destroy their enemy, they set back their plans, or pissed them off, etc...

[Bloody Morgan]

Do the replaced PC dopplegangers know that they are dopplegangers, ic, or is there some kind of mystical mind-block? If it's the former, but I didn't tell my PCs, they'd lynch me.

[Jester of the FoS]

They 'know' in one of those odd moments the PCs know something the players don't.
In theory, the dopplegangers are doing such a good job they're undetectable from the real thing, and the only way to copy that is for the players NOT to know otherwise they wouldn't act like themselves, give subtle clues that things are not right, etc.
Really, it's also a way to surprise everyone at once. "Surprise! You're all dead and replaced by evil shapeshifters!"

[Episkopos]

Really, it's also a way to surprise everyone at once. "Surprise! You're all dead and replaced by evil shapeshifters!"

Exactly!!!

[Bloody Morgan]

Yeah, they'd kill me. My players are perfectly happy to be given replacement pcs for this kind of thing, one even played as such for more than a month, but if they don't know what they think they should... not going to work.

Thanks though, all.

Bloody Morgan

[Episkopos]

You should let your players know however that this isn't a goody goody save-the-princess-from-the-terrible-dragon campaign. This is Ravenloft. Most of the times, things they dont want to happen are the ones that happen. And stop thinking how the players will react. Do your game as you see fit, not the players. You play Ravenloft because you want a horror campaign, they will be pretty horified when the learn they are dead.
At least that's the best advice I can give you mate.

[Joël of the FoS]

I use Cut Scenes primarily to show the aftershocks of PC actions. It gives them something to be proud of that even if they didn't destroy their enemy, they set back their plans, or pissed them off, etc...

I use cut scenes to give my players atmospheric hints about a NPC or an event. Nothing they can get an important advantage knowing it, but it brings an extra layer to the atmosphere.

Joël

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

And stop thinking how the players will react. Do your game as you see fit, not the players.

I disagree very much here. It's tough to DM all by yourself when all the players up and leave. A good group can handle whatever horrible thing happens to their character in stride, but even the best of players gets upset when they feel they have no say in anything. Why should they come and listen to the DM tell his own story without any options for them? If I ever run this adventure, I will play out the doppleganger abductions by taking the player aside in another room and let the PC involved know what happened.