Back to Wizards of the Coast?

[midnightcat]

One doens't need to understand Ravenloft to catch errors, just a good proof reader. WOTC has had errors too in many of thier products. WOTV products just look nicer becuase they are in color and on better paper, but you also pay more for them.

[tec-goblin]

WotC has quite a few errors per page. I have noticed many. The good fact: when some fans notice about a page of errors, the creators recalculate all numbers of the book from scratch and give you a huge amount of errata (see Libris Mortis for example). It's all about web support in the end.
And, in general, WotC material is much better playbalanced. Ok. 1 in 15 classes may be awfully broken while 1 in 15 may be completely useless, but the rest have a quite decent level of power. RL has a serious problem with the feats (HoL had some ridiculously useless feats like Sanctity). Anyway, Arthaus here has done much a better job than other independent d20 producers (look at AEG's d20 rules and run and hide!)

[Trevorfrost]

Personally the only reason I would like it if Ravenloft went back to WOTC is if they gave it back to people who knew what the heck they were doing with it.. Like the Kargatane or someone similar, not just as writers but at the helm so we don't have huge mess ups like Champions of Darkness..

More like Requiem and Forged for Darkness.

I am sorry were you saying that the Kargatane was responsible for Requiem and Forged for Darkness? Cause I didn't think that they worked for WOTC.... WOTC doesn't have to mean horrible as long as the developers and writers they hire are good to the line.. Meaning that I really don't care who has the line as long as they treat it with the respect it deserves...

[Joël of the FoS]

I am sorry were you saying that the Kargatane was responsible for Requiem and Forged for Darkness? Cause I didn't think that they worked for WOTC.... WOTC doesn't have to mean horrible as long as the developers and writers they hire are good to the line.. Meaning that I really don't care who has the line as long as they treat it with the respect it deserves...

No it is't what he meant! He meant that poor books were released too when WotC directing the line.

For your info, the Kargatane came active only at the end of 2e (John W Mangrum alone was active then, he cowrote Carnival and wrote an adventure for TSR Jam 99), and then as writers for the great 3e revival.

Joël

[Trevorfrost]

I am sorry were you saying that the Kargatane was responsible for Requiem and Forged for Darkness? Cause I didn't think that they worked for WOTC.... WOTC doesn't have to mean horrible as long as the developers and writers they hire are good to the line.. Meaning that I really don't care who has the line as long as they treat it with the respect it deserves...

No it is't what he meant! He meant that poor books were released too when WotC directing the line.

For your info, the Kargatane came active only at the end of 2e (John W Mangrum alone was active then, he cowrote Carnival and wrote an adventure for TSR Jam 99), and then as writers for the great 3e revival.

Joël

I am more than aware of that fact, however it looked to me as if he was mocking my previous statement.. Which if he is bringing up Requiem and Forged for Darkness he didn't really read my original statement. Sorry if I sounded snippy but to me it looked like an attack made without actually reading what I said.. (In fact to me it still looks like an attack, but then again I am a bit tired so maybe there's some subtle nuance I am missing?)

[Jester of the FoS]

Okay, lengthy actual discussion of what you wrote:
Firstly, the Kargatane never worked for Wizards or TSR save for Mangrum. So it would be impossible to “give it back” to them. White Wolf/ArtHaus could but they'd rather stick with the people in their talent pool that work well with their chosen developers.
If WotC bought out the line again they would likely make the exact same decision and just stick it with WotC contracted employees and familiar freelancers with whom they have worked before, regardless if they have any experience on the line. This might mean some old favourites sneak in (such as Steve Miller who is currently working for WW anyway) or –the more likely case– it is entirely new talent.
As for “who knew what the heck they were doing with it”, I assume you mean someone like, say, William W. Connors who was a developer on the line since the original Black Box as did such original and great work as creating Masque of the Red Death and more. But also wrote Forged of Darkness, developed Requiem and wrote such breathtaking stuff as CotN: Werebeasts.

Familiarity does not guarantee greatness. If the Kargatane had stayed with the line they’d have put out poor projects as well (or rather another poor product, Secrets of the Dread Realms and the 3E DM screen anyone?). Guaranteed. It happens.

Was it an attack? No, closer to gentle teasing.
The Kargatane get romanticised a lot, they’re bound to as fans made pro. And having them bow out early is probably the closest they’re going to get to being remembered as infallible. But they’re the past now, they’ve probably all got new jobs and might not come back even if asked –not after how things ended. You cannot go forward by moving back.

[Joël of the FoS]

If the Kargatane had stayed with the line they’d have put out poor projects as well (or rather another poor product, Secrets of the Dread Realms and the 3E DM screen anyone?).

However, one should not confuse the writers and the developpers/WW decisions: IIRC, SotDR was supposed to be much larger (with many things from the DM Guide). I don't think this short book failures are to be credited to the K.

Joël

[Trevorfrost]

Okay, lengthy actual discussion of what you wrote:
Firstly, the Kargatane never worked for Wizards or TSR save for Mangrum. So it would be impossible to “give it back” to them. White Wolf/ArtHaus could but they'd rather stick with the people in their talent pool that work well with their chosen developers.
If WotC bought out the line again they would likely make the exact same decision and just stick it with WotC contracted employees and familiar freelancers with whom they have worked before, regardless if they have any experience on the line. This might mean some old favourites sneak in (such as Steve Miller who is currently working for WW anyway) or –the more likely case– it is entirely new talent.
As for “who knew what the heck they were doing with it”, I assume you mean someone like, say, William W. Connors who was a developer on the line since the original Black Box as did such original and great work as creating Masque of the Red Death and more. But also wrote Forged of Darkness, developed Requiem and wrote such breathtaking stuff as CotN: Werebeasts.

Familiarity does not guarantee greatness. If the Kargatane had stayed with the line they’d have put out poor projects as well (or rather another poor product, Secrets of the Dread Realms and the 3E DM screen anyone?). Guaranteed. It happens.

Was it an attack? No, closer to gentle teasing.
The Kargatane get romanticised a lot, they’re bound to as fans made pro. And having them bow out early is probably the closest they’re going to get to being remembered as infallible. But they’re the past now, they’ve probably all got new jobs and might not come back even if asked –not after how things ended. You cannot go forward by moving back.

Okay I see where you got confused.. What I was saying in my original post is this. That if Arthaus gave Ravenloft back to WOTC the only reason I would be happy is if they gave it to a group who knew what the heck they were doing with the setting. The Kargatane was on the top of the list but I also said "or someone similar." Someone who knows the setting and respects it, and not just as writers but as head developers cause that's where they'd need to be to prevent thing like the SotDR. So again I reiterate my non-caring about which company has the setting as long as what comes out is a quality product.

[Jester of the FoS]

But again, currently the writing staff tapped for books includes one former TSR writer who worked on the line and one member of the Kargatane (or ex-member...) in addition to the writer for the 2E line working as a developer. And apparently other writers whom I know less well (ie who haven't popped onto the board to offer their thoughts) respect the setting as well.
Wizards... there is no way of knowing who would get the setting.

Devil you know versus the devil you don't...

And granted that Secrets of the Dread Realms gets put at the feet of the setting's first 3E developer and publisher plus a breakdown of communication. I was just pointing out that no matter who you are and what your reputation is when life gets involved bad things can happen.
But the screen itself really was sub-par though.

[Trevorfrost]

But again, currently the writing staff tapped for books includes one former TSR writer who worked on the line and one member of the Kargatane (or ex-member...) in addition to the writer for the 2E line working as a developer. And apparently other writers whom I know less well (ie who haven't popped onto the board to offer their thoughts) respect the setting as well.
Wizards... there is no way of knowing who would get the setting.

Devil you know versus the devil you don't...

And granted that Secrets of the Dread Realms gets put at the feet of the setting's first 3E developer and publisher plus a breakdown of communication. I was just pointing out that no matter who you are and what your reputation is when life gets involved bad things can happen.
But the screen itself really was sub-par though.

Hence my stipulations.... I will be happy only if... Not, I want them to change it right now cause everything right now sucks....