Vistani with retrocognition

[Teravala]

I know the vistani are famous for their ability to see the future and, to some extent, read present events that are occurring. I am wondering if there are any printed cases of vistani whose gifts of sight are fixated on reading the past through retrocognition or psychometry (being able to see an objects past)? I think it could make for a really interesting individual, and offer a lot of opportunity for DM's to drop lore to the party that would otherwise be incredibly difficult to do.

Edit:originally accidentally said past, not future.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

I know the vistani are famous for their ability to see the past and, to some extent, read present events that are occurring. I am wondering if there are any printed cases of vistani whose gifts of sight are fixated on reading the past through retrocognition or psychometry (being able to see an objects past)? I think it could make for a really interesting individual, and offer a lot of opportunity for DM's to drop lore to the party that would otherwise be incredibly difficult to do.

Interesting.
I wonder how to mechanically represent it for a PC. Legend Lore as a cantrip, or something more complex?

[Teravala]

I know the vistani are famous for their ability to see the past and, to some extent, read present events that are occurring. I am wondering if there are any printed cases of vistani whose gifts of sight are fixated on reading the past through retrocognition or psychometry (being able to see an objects past)? I think it could make for a really interesting individual, and offer a lot of opportunity for DM's to drop lore to the party that would otherwise be incredibly difficult to do.

Interesting.
I wonder how to mechanically represent it for a PC. Legend Lore as a cantrip, or something more complex?

hey my bad, I accidentally said vistani were known for reading the past instead of the future.

that said, I think a legend lore spell might work for the psychometry. I was also thinking clairaudience/clairvoyance, but instead of a fixed locale it is a fixed location in the past, a waive the requirement of being familiar with it, so long as you have an adequate description of the time and place you are looking into, for the retrocognition. still looking into spell effects that might apply, but I was wondering if conceptually it was something people might find interesting, and it seems like you do so that makes me happy.

[The Dark]

The other place to look for inspiration in 2e could be the Complete Psionics Handbook, particularly the Clairsentience powers like Object Reading, Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions, Spirit Sense, and Aura Sight. Within 2e's rules there's probably space to make the Vistani as a whole use the psionic powers, with their seers being Clairsentient and their warriors/thieves using Psychometabolic powers, with Mistwalking being the use of Dimension Door or Dimension Walk to step "around" the Mists. That probably bends the rules of Ravenloft a bit, but since they're only using a brief jaunt in a dimension to get somewhere else in Ravenloft and can't actually spend time there, it doesn't mutilate the setting too badly.

[Teravala]

The other place to look for inspiration in 2e could be the Complete Psionics Handbook, particularly the Clairsentience powers like Object Reading, Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions, Spirit Sense, and Aura Sight. Within 2e's rules there's probably space to make the Vistani as a whole use the psionic powers, with their seers being Clairsentient and their warriors/thieves using Psychometabolic powers, with Mistwalking being the use of Dimension Door or Dimension Walk to step "around" the Mists. That probably bends the rules of Ravenloft a bit, but since they're only using a brief jaunt in a dimension to get somewhere else in Ravenloft and can't actually spend time there, it doesn't mutilate the setting too badly.

nice, that's a good idea. I run 3.5 so I am not too familiar with a lot of 2e content, but I bet there's either something comparable in 3.5, or else I can convert the things I need to make it fit. I know 3.5 handles teleportation pretty well in RL. Effects that transport you to the ethereal plane for example, port you to the near ethereal instead. So technically you never leave the plane, and they can't cross closed domain borders of course.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Although a lot of the 3e Masque of the Red Death book was rubbish, it introduced Psychometry as a trainable skill. Could that be useful to you?

[Teravala]

Although a lot of the 3e Masque of the Red Death book was rubbish, it introduced Psychometry as a trainable skill. Could that be useful to you?

yes it could indeed! I didn't know that, I've never really looked into the gothic earth stuff, but I will definitely look into that. Thank you so much for letting me know this existed, I doubt I would have found it on my own.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

In Pathfinder 1E, there are also occult skill unlocks. If you take a feat, or just a single level in an occult spellcasting class (PF's version of psionics), you can use existing skills to do new things - like prognostication, aura reading, phrenology... or psychometry.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Although a lot of the 3e Masque of the Red Death book was rubbish, it introduced Psychometry as a trainable skill. Could that be useful to you?

yes it could indeed! I didn't know that, I've never really looked into the gothic earth stuff, but I will definitely look into that. Thank you so much for letting me know this existed, I doubt I would have found it on my own.

I think the trainable skill would fit in decently in Renaissance domains. It reminds me of the era of semi-spiritual ists like Madame Blavatsky; people so eager to discover and understand the supernatural that they did all sorts of things.

Of course in the Ravenloft setting, that could mean they'd be opening doors that should remain closed. Performing an object reading on an item used in a grisly murder could open you up to Horror checks, et cetera.

[Teravala]

I think the trainable skill would fit in decently in Renaissance domains. It reminds me of the era of semi-spiritual ists like Madame Blavatsky; people so eager to discover and understand the supernatural that they did all sorts of things.

Of course in the Ravenloft setting, that could mean they'd be opening doors that should remain closed. Performing an object reading on an item used in a grisly murder could open you up to Horror checks, et cetera.

I agree that the diviner could definitely be opening themselves up to danger, that's actually a positive in my book. It will (hopefully) keep my players from asking this NPC to give them the history of literally every item that crosses their paths, and may even require them to partake in things like rituals of protection to help safeguard the diviner, or even better, they have to restore the now shattered mind of the diviner to be able to access the information they need. She saw it, and it drove her mad. But it is still something they need, so looks like it's off to a mental hospital to get her treatment. Lucky for them there's a Doctor Dominiani who seems to have quite a reputation for healing broken minds. The side quests basically write themselves.

I also agree that it feels very mid 19th/early 20th century to me, when as you said people were DESPERATE to connect to/understand/explore connections to the other side.

[Teravala]

In Pathfinder 1E, there are also occult skill unlocks. If you take a feat, or just a single level in an occult spellcasting class (PF's version of psionics), you can use existing skills to do new things - like prognostication, aura reading, phrenology... or psychometry.

That's also cool to hear about. I haven't played much of Pathfinder, though my old group allowed a transparency between it and 3.5 for classes and feats and such, so I've seen some of the classes in action. Nothing like what you're describing though. Sounds perfect for what I'm trying to do though.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

In Pathfinder 1E, there are also occult skill unlocks. If you take a feat, or just a single level in an occult spellcasting class (PF's version of psionics), you can use existing skills to do new things - like prognostication, aura reading, phrenology... or psychometry.

That's also cool to hear about. I haven't played much of Pathfinder, though my old group allowed a transparency between it and 3.5 for classes and feats and such, so I've seen some of the classes in action. Nothing like what you're describing though. Sounds perfect for what I'm trying to do though.

In that case, you can find the rules for occult skill unlocks here.

[Teravala]

In Pathfinder 1E, there are also occult skill unlocks. If you take a feat, or just a single level in an occult spellcasting class (PF's version of psionics), you can use existing skills to do new things - like prognostication, aura reading, phrenology... or psychometry.

That's also cool to hear about. I haven't played much of Pathfinder, though my old group allowed a transparency between it and 3.5 for classes and feats and such, so I've seen some of the classes in action. Nothing like what you're describing though. Sounds perfect for what I'm trying to do though.

In that case, you can find the rules for occult skill unlocks here.

eyy appreciate it, thanks again. I also think psionics might have a few relevant powers in the 3.X era, which thematically would be kind of cool. Instead of a vistani mystic her mental abilities manifest the sight differently, hence why she can read the history of objects or see the past but not the future. Still spitballing ideas around for it but I'm liking what is coming together.

[Baron Von Stanton]

Of course in the Ravenloft setting, that could mean they'd be opening doors that should remain closed. Performing an object reading on an item used in a grisly murder could open you up to Horror checks, et cetera.

That was touched on in Van Ritchen's Guide to Ghosts concerning the dangers mediums and other psychically sensitive individuals faced in divining supernatural and other horrible past events. Madness checks were implied to be frequently invoked.

[TheArcaneWeirdo]

they have to restore the now shattered mind of the diviner to be able to access the information they need. She saw it, and it drove her mad. But it is still something they need, so looks like it's off to a mental hospital to get her treatment. Lucky for them there's a Doctor Dominiani who seems to have quite a reputation for healing broken minds. The side quests basically write themselves.

I'd also remind in this opportunity that according to a single sentence in VRGtR, the Saulbridge Sanitarium is secretly hosting a cell of the https://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Ca ... nquisition . (Am I the only one who finds this unproportionally funny? It's just so random! Nobody expects the Ulmist Inquisition!)